Bizzbee's Trial with Super R Andro (2nd run of pro hormones)

[bizzbee]

Starting next week, my second pro hormone cycle will begin, this time with super r andro from IML.

Stay tuned...

[bizzbee]

Can anyone recommend a good PCT for this run? I would like to try the RES 100. The Sustain Alpha is no longer in stock it looks like.

[CannonBalls]

Don’t even bother, just cycle the herbs after and you’ll be fine

[Fausto Soares]

Can anyone recommend a good PCT for this run? I would like to try the RES 100. The Sustain Alpha is no longer in stock it looks like.

The own herbs cycle serves well as PCT!

[bizzbee]

I need a SERM like substance. The herbs aren't going to cut it. They didn't last time. The RES 100 should do nicely. Too bad Sustain Alpha by BPS is no longer made.

[Maxout777]

I need a SERM like substance. The herbs aren't going to cut it. They didn't last time. The RES 100 should do nicely. Too bad Sustain Alpha by BPS is no longer made.

I'm not trying to be an ass here, but the LAST thing you need right now is a SERM. Or anything like it.

If you're hell bent on going against the grain and not using the individual herbs, I would elect for an all-in-one natural PCT like K1ngs Blood by OL or Ultra Male by IML.

Be careful with Res. I killed my E on it a few times and it made me pretty miserable.

[biatch]

Yes, what Maxout is saying is true.
I had the same experience. I wouldn't touch E at all, I used 0.25 mg arimidex 2 times and made me crap for months.
Don't think about it and use herbs.

[Cdsnuts]

I need a SERM like substance. The herbs aren't going to cut it. They didn't last time. The RES 100 should do nicely. Too bad Sustain Alpha by BPS is no longer made.You just don't get it bro.

I didn't realize you've been rotating herbs for a year or so to make that determination.

You make your judgments based on the fact that you take an herb a couple of times and if you don't get an immediate reaction from it you automatically Bin it. You're doing exactly the opposite of what is recommended.

The fact that you're even considering running a serm just goes to show that.

Protocol Works only if you work it.

I really think going forward, for most guys, they don't have ground to stand on making statements about what does or doesn't work unless they've been running the regimen 100% for six months or so. Any judgments made before this time mean NOTHING.



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[bizzbee]

I have been rotating herbs since I stopped the first pro hormone cycle. When I used RES100 following a short 1 week pro hormone cycle a few years back it really brought back erectile strength and sensitivity in a way the herbs failed to do. I haven't binned any herbs. You seem to forget that all of your PCTs were with Sustain Alpha, Toco 8, and aspartic acid during your recovery. I think I will go with King's Blood for PCT and then start cycling herbs afterwards. Thanks for the recommendation Maxout 777.


You just don't get it bro.

I didn't realize you've been rotating herbs for a year or so to make that determination.

You make your judgments based on the fact that you take an herb a couple of times and if you don't get an immediate reaction from it you automatically Bin it. You're doing exactly the opposite of what is recommended.

The fact that you're even considering running a serm just goes to show that.

Protocol Works only if you work it.

I really think going forward, for most guys, they don't have ground to stand on making statements about what does or doesn't work unless they've been running the regimen 100% for six months or so. Any judgments made before this time mean NOTHING.



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DAY 1

Super R Andro by IML Dose 400mgs

[Cdsnuts]

I have been rotating herbs since I stopped the first pro hormone cycle. When I used RES100 following a short 1 week pro hormone cycle a few years back it really brought back erectile strength and sensitivity in a way the herbs failed to do. I haven't binned any herbs. You seem to forget that all of your PCTs were with Sustain Alpha, Toco 8, and aspartic acid during your recovery. I think I will go with King's Blood for PCT and then start cycling herbs afterwards. Thanks for the recommendation Maxout 777.



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DAY 1

Super R Andro by IML Dose 400mgs

Nothing's forgotten my friend. Quite the contrary.

[Snell1234]

I have been rotating herbs since I stopped the first pro hormone cycle. When I used RES100 following a short 1 week pro hormone cycle a few years back it really brought back erectile strength and sensitivity in a way the herbs failed to do. I haven't binned any herbs. You seem to forget that all of your PCTs were with Sustain Alpha, Toco 8, and aspartic acid during your recovery. I think I will go with King's Blood for PCT and then start cycling herbs afterwards. Thanks for the recommendation Maxout 777.



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DAY 1

Super R Andro by IML Dose 400mgs

He hasn't forgotten anything. He now just recommends the method that works best without us having to trial and error things like he did. The things he doesn't recommend any more which he did are most likely due to the fact that they aren't necessary.

[Cdsnuts]

He hasn't forgotten anything. He now just recommends the method that works best without us having to trial and error things like he did. The things he doesn't recommend any more which he did are most likely due to the fact that they aren't necessary.

Exactly Snell.

Also trying to keep budget in mind, as we all know this is not a cheap endevour, especially if you're going to proper fasting clinics and doing organic juice feasts. The separate PCT just isn't necessary with the compounds recommended seeing as the herb rotation is in fact, a lifelong PCT that you can do indefinitely.

That being said, Res, Sustain, etc, can be used if someone wanted to use them. I've found that they work a little too well and swing the estrogen pendulum in the other direction a bit too much. It really depends on the person. In the very beginning I found them very helpful. As I healed, they became more of a hindrance.

Ultimately, if you're doing everything correctly, they really aren't necessary. Crushing your estrogen is not a fun experience and just piles one more thing on top of the pile you're trying to dig away. Especially when it comes to running them after you just ran a compound that reduces your estrogen as it is.

Personally, after a DHT run, I could tell that my estrogen was on the low side, as it should have been. The last thing you want to do is suppress it more.

[Snell1234]

Exactly Snell.

Also trying to keep budget in mind, as we all know this is not a cheap endevour, especially if you're going to proper fasting clinics and doing organic juice feasts. The separate PCT just isn't necessary with the compounds recommended seeing as the herb rotation is in fact, a lifelong PCT that you can do indefinitely.

That being said, Res, Sustain, etc, can be used if someone wanted to use them. I've found that they work a little too well and swing the estrogen pendulum in the other direction a bit too much. It really depends on the person. In the very beginning I found them very helpful. As I healed, they became more of a hindrance.

Ultimately, if you're doing everything correctly, they really aren't necessary. Crushing your estrogen is not a fun experience and just piles one more thing on top of the pile you're trying to dig away. Especially when it comes to running them after you just ran a compound that reduces your estrogen as it is.

Personally, after a DHT run, I could tell that my estrogen was on the low side, as it should have been. The last thing you want to do is suppress it more.

At this stage of my recovery, anything that reduces my estrogen tanks my libido and makes me irritable. Again, similar to you, in the beginning these things probably seemed to help me with the symptoms.

[Swill]

For PCT, herbs over Res 100 very time, and I have access to both.

In fact, started PCT today after 8 weeks (400 mg/day) R Andro run with pine pollen and some goji berry (which is new to my rotation so wanted to try it out).

The suppression from DHT pro hormones is so mild you wouldn't want a sledgehammer PCT IMO... will do more harm than good more often than not.

[bizzbee]

Thanks for the input fellas. I might run the PCT for only a week and then switch to herbs for the remaining portion of the PCT.

DAY 2 UPDATE: still on 400 mgs. No headaches. Woke up groggy. Feeling a bit suppressed. This stuff kicks in after a couple of weeks right?

[Cdsnuts]

Thanks for the input fellas. I might run the PCT for only a week and then switch to herbs for the remaining portion of the PCT.

DAY 2 UPDATE: still on 400 mgs. No headaches. Woke up groggy. Feeling a bit suppressed. This stuff kicks in after a couple of weeks right?I don't know if suppressed is the right adjective to use for what you're trying to explain. You wouldn't be hormonally suppressed after 2 days on R andro

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[bizzbee]

You would know better than me then.


I don't know if suppressed is the right adjective to use for what you're trying to explain. You wouldn't be hormonally suppressed after 2 days on R andro

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[Master Mal]

Thanks for the input fellas. I might run the PCT for only a week and then switch to herbs for the remaining portion of the PCT.

DAY 2 UPDATE: still on 400 mgs. No headaches. Woke up groggy. Feeling a bit suppressed. This stuff kicks in after a couple of weeks right?

I dunno, man. I fucking loved waking up groggy. Felt normal. By the way, are headaches a thing on this stuff? Haven't experienced any yet and I'm on week 4.

[biatch]

For PCT, herbs over Res 100 very time, and I have access to both.

In fact, started PCT today after 8 weeks (400 mg/day) R Andro run with pine pollen and some goji berry (which is new to my rotation so wanted to try it out).

The suppression from DHT pro hormones is so mild you wouldn't want a sledgehammer PCT IMO... will do more harm than good more often than not.

How was your run. How do you feel?

[jacknap]

do you guys have improved sleep from andro?

[Master Mal]

do you guys have improved sleep from andro?

I definitely have. More vivid dreams too.

[Cdsnuts]

I dunno, man. I fucking loved waking up groggy. Felt normal. By the way, are headaches a thing on this stuff? Haven't experienced any yet and I'm on week 4.Some people can experience headaches usually just in the beginning

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[bizzbee]

So epiandro is for sure the one that causes lethargy? With the androhard my strength improved within days. I'm hoping the super r andro will have the same effect.

Anyone try Alpha Gainz stuff? I may switch between the IML super r andro and Androhard topical every few days while on cycle.

[bizzbee]

Last night had raging nocturnals. Had two espressos that day and 400 mg andro.

[Maxout777]

Don't run Andro Hard with this run. Keep it clean. You've already experienced epi andro not agreeing with you. Why would you add it in again?

[bizzbee]

Well that was the theory. But I don't know which was the culprit. I guess I will know in a couple of weeks. Going to keep it clean as you suggested. 400mgs


Don't run Andro Hard with this run. Keep it clean. You've already experienced epi andro not agreeing with you. Why would you add it in again?

[biatch]

Well that was the theory. But I don't know which was the culprit. I guess I will know in a couple of weeks. Going to keep it clean as you suggested. 400mgs
Bizzbee, could you please list the improvements you got from your first R andro run? Just curious cause I miss it.
Thank you.

[Pageidol]

This is his first r andro run...he ran androhard first. Pay attention

[jacknap]

I was watching youtube videos on r-andro and one guy said that it's like 30% more effective on an empty stomach.

So maybe try it before breakfast and before bed? (That's what I'm thinking of doing)

Steel Supplements 1-Andro Benefits Breakdown - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qQDfU_f5jk)

was think of adding 4 andro on one run. gunna keep my first one just r-andro though.

cuz when i got my bloods my dht was high and free test low... weird shit.

[Cdsnuts]

I was watching youtube videos on r-andro and one guy said that it's like 30% more effective on an empty stomach.

So maybe try it before breakfast and before bed? (That's what I'm thinking of doing)

Steel Supplements 1-Andro Benefits Breakdown - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qQDfU_f5jk)

was think of adding 4 andro on one run. gunna keep my first one just r-andro though.

cuz when i got my bloods my dht was high and free test low... weird shit.I always suggest running the DHT compounds first before adding in the other hormones... it helps to get a feel for how they're going to affect you which will help you then determine what you're getting from each compound.

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[Fausto Soares]

I was watching youtube videos on r-andro and one guy said that it's like 30% more effective on an empty stomach.

So maybe try it before breakfast and before bed? (That's what I'm thinking of doing)

Steel Supplements 1-Andro Benefits Breakdown - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qQDfU_f5jk)

was think of adding 4 andro on one run. gunna keep my first one just r-andro though.

cuz when i got my bloods my dht was high and free test low... weird shit.

I will take R-Andro on empty stomach, as i do with all of the herbs.

[Maxout777]

I didnt, nor do I still, eat breakfast during my recovery. So I always took them on an empty stomach. So I really have no other option to compare to.

[bizzbee]

UPDATE: DAY 3

At 400mgs per day now for 2 days. This is a potent sleep aid. I know it affects GABA receptors. It knocked me out today for hours. I just woke up now after deciding to take a nap in the morning. I'm going to have to either dial it down some or take epi andro or do some kind of mix like with androhard. If it turns out that this androsterone is the stuff that is making me lethargic I might make it a 25 to 75 percent split with epiandro. Gym sessions have had a noticeable decrease in energy and strength as soon as starting this stuff.

[Pageidol]

Yeah that’s one side effect I failed to mention from it too, it had a sedative effect on me

[bizzbee]

Does it go away with continued usage or do you have to dial down dosage?

[Maxout777]

Does it go away with continued usage or do you have to dial down dosage?

From my experience it comes and goes. Some days on cycle I wanna just do all the yard work I can and do as much activities as I can during the day, and others, after the gym I just wanted to lay around and not do much. So I think it's more of that type of pattern as opposed to showing up early on and fading with continued use.

[Pageidol]

I reduced it by drinking more coffee, loads of fruit and stuff. Been of it 2 days now and its gone but I just put up with it. I just had to force myself abit more to do things. I kept thinking fuck it its doing me some good lol but i do feel better of it. There were a cpl of days though where I felt wiped out. I kept thinking once im off cycle the test boosters will work even better 💪

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This whole regimen though will work differently with everybody tho and ultimately get everything back one way or another haha.

[bizzbee]

Well, I have a job where I need to be alert and thinking. I can't have this kind of lethargy. I'm going to mix it up with epi in the hopes that it helps reduce this side effect, if not I will have to dial it down to about half the dosage per day.

[bizzbee]

Ordered epi from IML just earlier. Tonight, going to use Androhard topical gel.

Progress Report:
My semen looked absolutely like it did pre PFS (thickness, color, consistency). Volume still low. Refractory period decreasing. Happy with progress so far.

[Maxout777]

Epi is going to make it worse. It killed me from a lethargy standpoint, made me super irritable and just felt rode hard and put up wet.

[bizzbee]

So just deal with the grogginess for 6-8 weeks or so? At least with the epi I had strength gains within a week or so. I really thought this would be different.

UPDATE: canceled order for epi from IML. If I need it I'll just use the androhard. Still got plenty left.

[Swill]

I suspect the grogginess you’re having won’t hang about long term, as someone said previously it will come and go but just ride it out, i suspect you won’t be feeling it to the extent you are now for the length of the run.

Also, my experience with the Epi mirrors Maxouts, from my experience you made the right call in cancelling.


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[Cdsnuts]

I suspect the grogginess you’re having won’t hang about long term, as someone said previously it will come and go but just ride it out, i suspect you won’t be feeling it to the extent you are now for the length of the run.

Also, my experience with the Epi mirrors Maxouts, from my experience you made the right call in cancelling.


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Exactly.

As with all of this, you have to give it time.

[bizzbee]

DAY 5: Yesterday started mixing in some androhard from IML. Today, switched back to Super R Andro from IML. Tapering dosage to 300mg of androsterone.

Grogginess dissipating. Feeling less sleepy.

[bizzbee]

DAY 6: bumped back up to 400mg. Tolerating it better with time.

[bizzbee]

DAY 7: semen still normal looking. Volume almost normal. Erectile strength increased. Orgasmic pleasure increased.

Addendum: Scrotum thickening. Looks and feels more normal.

My body has been deprived of androgens for sooooo long.

[Pageidol]

Sounds good mate 👍

[Cdsnuts]

DAY 7: semen still normal looking. Volume almost normal. Erectile strength increased. Orgasmic pleasure increased.

Addendum: Scrotum thickening. Looks and feels more normal.

My body has been deprived of androgens for sooooo long.

Now we all know that you've been playing with yourself Biz. Don't you know that'll make you blind.....lol.

[bizzbee]

What fun I've missed all these years, what fun I'll have in the years to come (no pun intended). This is a different kind of sensation, a long lost one that feels like it comes from the prostate itself. It feels like the prostate has finally been rejuvenated.

Now we all know that you've been playing with yourself Biz. Don't you know that'll make you blind.....lol.

[bizzbee]

This shit is expensive. But it's better than living like a eunuch the rest of my life. Ordered 4 more bottles. Each bottle lasts two weeks if taking 4 capsules a day.
Want to run 6 week cycles. Good thing its Cyber Monday. The third cycle will be 4 weeks Super R and the last two will be androhard.

[Pageidol]

What fun I've missed all these years, what fun I'll have in the years to come (no pun intended). This is a different kind of sensation, a long lost one that feels like it comes from the prostate itself. It feels like the prostate has finally been rejuvenated.

I was getting post urinary drip last week on cycle

[Cdsnuts]

I was getting post urinary drip last week on cycle

C'mon now...you know you're supposed to shake that shit out before you put him back and zip up.....

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This shit is expensive. But it's better than living like a eunuch the rest of my life. Ordered 4 more bottles. Each bottle lasts two weeks if taking 4 capsules a day.
Want to run 6 week cycles. Good thing its Cyber Monday. The third cycle will be 4 weeks Super R and the last two will be androhard.

You wouldn't have lived like a eunuch. If you would have listened long enough and hard enough and spent the money on the herbs, you would have gotten there eventually. The PH's just tend to speed things up a bit. Be happy you can tolerate them.

Edit: not saying that you aren't listening or spending the money just saying in general.

[Pageidol]

Ha ✌️😛

[bizzbee]

I guess I wanted to try to beat this thing without any help from herbs or pro hormones. I got pretty far but it just wasn't enough, I was in very bad shape and I needed help.


C'mon now...you know you're supposed to shake that shit out before you put him back and zip up.....

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You wouldn't have lived like a eunuch. If you would have listened long enough and hard enough and spent the money on the herbs, you would have gotten there eventually. The PH's just tend to speed things up a bit. Be happy you can tolerate them.

Edit: not saying that you aren't listening or spending the money just saying in general.

[Cdsnuts]

I guess I wanted to try to beat this thing without any help from herbs or pro hormones. I got pretty far but it just wasn't enough, I was in very bad shape and I needed help.I've said this to you once before man, there's no medal for someone who beats PFS with the least amount of ancillaries.

Hit it hard with everything you have to get the best results... Not to mention the quickest

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[bizzbee]

Did anyone feel lightheadedness from the andro? Or a bubble like feeling in the middle of their chest?

[Snell1234]

Did anyone feel lightheadedness from the andro? Or a bubble like feeling in the middle of their chest?

What do you mean bubble like feeling in the middle of your chest?

[bizzbee]

It feels like a bit of momentary pressure build up in the middle of the chest that then subsides within seconds.

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It may be the caffeine.

[bizzbee]

It could be the caffeine flaring up acid reflux.

[Cdsnuts]

It could be the caffeine flaring up acid reflux.The r-andro alone is enough to cause acid reflux. It's a side effect of that particular prohormone. Couple that with the caffeine and yeah...

And I'm also more inclined to think it's with this particular brand as well as I've never noticed it with any other prohormone

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[bizzbee]

The feeling subsided within weeks of stopping the first cycle. I was worried when it first happened that it may be heart related.

[bizzbee]

DAY 12

Libido UP!! Has been for the past few days. All foods are tolerated seemingly well.

[Cdsnuts]

No update from Biz for the past four days? He must be completely overwhelmed with libido and is out painting the town unable to control his monstrous urges. Poor guy....I hope he remembers to come up for air.

[bizzbee]

Mixing it up with some epi here and there. The epi seems to help with mental clarity and alertness and morning energy.

[bizzbee]

After over two weeks this stuff is beginning to kick in. Energy up, strength up. Good burn in the gym. The lactic acid buildup becomes painful enough that I have to stop when repping. This is almost like it was when I was normal. It's strange, with PFS, all I'd really feel is some wall hit after a few reps but little to no burn, just a sudden onset of loss of strength and energy to continue.

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I have been cheating on diet for a few weeks to see how I tolerate foods. Food is better tolerated but metabolism not quite where it should be it seems, even when correcting for age.

[bizzbee]

Muscle building ability seems to have kicked up a notch. Dropping ten pounds. Target weight 157 lbs.

Any recommendations on whether to take the andro on an empty stomach?

[bizzbee]

Ordered some Himalaya LiverCare just now. Will use for on cycle support. Should we use this off cycle during recovery as well?

[Cdsnuts]

Muscle building ability seems to have kicked up a notch. Dropping ten pounds. Target weight 157 lbs.

Any recommendations on whether to take the andro on an empty stomach?If you take it on an empty stomach you run the risk of getting reflux from it. In regards to Effectiveness it doesn't really matter

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[Cdsnuts]

Ordered some Himalaya LiverCare just now. Will use for on cycle support. Should we use this off cycle during recovery as well?Liver care isn't necessary for these types of Cycles as they are very very light and don't pose any kind of threat to the liver.

For me personally I take it before and after a day of drinking.

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[bizzbee]

Thanks CD


If you take it on an empty stomach you run the risk of getting reflux from it. In regards to Effectiveness it doesn't really matter

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[bizzbee]

Little less than three weeks to go! Target weight almost within reach. Lost 6 lbs.

[bizzbee]

Feeling some dizziness or lightheadedness recently. Could be due to andro lowering blood pressure.

Anyone else get these symptoms?

[bizzbee]

Today I am ending my second pro hormone cycle. It has been near 4 weeks since I started. The cycle has been mostly androsterone with some epiandrosterone as well. The side effect of dizziness and some nausea has today has caused a bit of a scare. Starting PCT.

I feel as if I got a greater strength boost from the androhard gel. As time went on with this cycle I felt more and more tired in the mornings. Sleep was deeper but it was hard getting out of bed. I think I may go back to androhard or just go straight epi to see how that is. I prefer the gel to the capsules.

[bizzbee]

Actually, on second thought. I'm going to wait until the symptoms subside and then try again with the androhard. If they return then it's done for this cycle.

[biatch]

Today I am ending my second pro hormone cycle. It has been near 4 weeks since I started. The cycle has been mostly androsterone with some epiandrosterone as well. The side effect of dizziness and some nausea has today has caused a bit of a scare. Starting PCT.

I feel as if I got a greater strength boost from the androhard gel. As time went on with this cycle I felt more and more tired in the mornings. Sleep was deeper but it was hard getting out of bed. I think I may go back to androhard or just go straight epi to see how that is. I prefer the gel to the capsules.

So you didn't use R Andro?
I would like to point that there are different products that the market calls "Androsterone" but if you check the molecule cointeined in these different products, it can be deifferent from the one contained in the R Andro.
So, just my opinion, since we found out that R Andro has helped different PFS suffers, I wouldn't change the product risking of using a wrong molecule and I would keep staying on R Andro.
Just my 2 cents.

[Fausto Soares]

Feeling some dizziness or lightheadedness recently. Could be due to andro lowering blood pressure.

Anyone else get these symptoms?

Me too, some lethargy, after 6:00pm R-andro give me a punch of lethargy, it is almost impossible to keep eyes open and so, i fall sleep.

[bizzbee]

What do you mean I didn't use R-andro? Of course I used it.

[biatch]

What do you mean I didn't use R-andro? Of course I used it.

ok, maybe i understood it wrong, i read you used androhard gel.

[The battler]

Me too, some lethargy, after 6:00pm R-andro give me a punch of lethargy, it is almost impossible to keep eyes open and so, i fall sleep.

I too feel tired on it. I thought it was the epi andro that had this side effect and not the R Andro.
Is it a case of us eating lesser carbs?

[Pageidol]

Guys I felt tired and lethargic...i just put up with it. I know by to get where I wanna be it isn’t gonna be easy so I just keep marching on. I don’t whimper i can take anything! 🤟

“Its about what you can take and keep moving forward”

[TubZy]

From the GABA agonism...

[Fausto Soares]

Yes, the GABA..... and i felt so depressed on first days, DHT increase reuptake of serotonine, the opposite of anti-depression drugs, it explains my mood on beginning.

[bizzbee]

I'm not referring to lethargy here. That I 'm ok with actually. It was the dizziness and nausea. Felt almost like passing out. That's when I stopped. Probably related to blood pressure. I'm better now that I've stopped. Didn't have this happening with androhard gel.

[Pageidol]

Did you get more out of androhard mate? Did you reach a higher baseline after androhard?

Cheers

[TubZy]

No idea why you thought epiandro would help with tiredness. It also binds to the GABA receptor....

[bizzbee]

I didn't think it would. But I feel like the epi was better for strength and mental alertness.


No idea why you thought epiandro would help with tiredness. It also binds to the GABA receptor....

[TubZy]

I didn't think it would. But I feel like the epi was better for strength and mental alertness.

Should of just stuck with one prohormone. You are taking the prohormone to snap the body out of the current state it is in, not to pack on as much muscle and strength as you can in a short term period Excess GABA drops blood pressure and also lack of sodium/potassium can do the same.

You sure?


Well, I have a job where I need to be alert and thinking. I can't have this kind of lethargy. I'm going to mix it up with epi in the hopes that it helps reduce this side effect, if not I will have to dial it down to about half the dosage per day.

[bizzbee]

Sure about what?





You sure?

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I felt like a higher baseline was reached in terms of an improvement in energy and fatigue


Did you get more out of androhard mate? Did you reach a higher baseline after androhard?

Cheers

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I stuck with one pro hormone. It was the R-andro. I tried to mix it up a couple of times with androhard to see if this GABAergic effect and low blood pressure like symptoms would go away. For the most part it was R-andro.



Should of just stuck with one prohormone. You are taking the prohormone to snap the body out of the current state it is in, not to pack on as much muscle and strength as you can in a short term period Excess GABA drops blood pressure and also lack of sodium/potassium can do the same.

You sure?

[TubZy]

You just said you didn't think it would help with tiredness but yet you said you wanted to take it to help with that specific reason, look at the bold text below. You added in androhard when multiple people told you not to like maxout. Androhard contains epiandro look at the image below.


I didn't think it would. But I feel like the epi was better for strength and mental alertness.



Well, I have a job where I need to be alert and thinking. I can't have this kind of lethargy. I'm going to mix it up with epi in the hopes that it helps reduce this side effect, if not I will have to dial it down to about half the dosage per day.


DAY 5: Yesterday started mixing in some androhard from IML. Today, switched back to Super R Andro from IML. Tapering dosage to 300mg of androsterone.

Grogginess dissipating. Feeling less sleepy.

R andro only contains androsterone. Androhard contains both isomers (androsterone and epiandrosterone). Those are two separate prohormones not one so you used two. It doesn't matter if you just "mixed it up a couple of times" even on single dose can alter your body in this state which can take a while to snap back from let alone adding it in the middle of another hormone cycle. How would androhard even help with getting the GABAergic effect to go away anyways? It contains both GABAergic substances that makes no sense, which is probably why you are dealing with the issues you are now. You probably tanked your electrolytes as well since GABA interacts with potassium channels. Seems like you are just randomly experimenting on yourself without fully knowing what you are doing despite people giving you logical advice on this thread.

https://i.imgur.com/Fid1fPE.png

[bizzbee]

You're right. I don't know what I'm doing. This is new to me. I think for my next cycle I will do it under a doctor's supervision.

Maybe you should right a manual or something on broscience. You seem to know a lot about this stuff.

[TubZy]

You're right. I don't know what I'm doing. This is new to me. I think for my next cycle I will do it under a doctor's supervision.

Maybe you should right a manual or something on broscience. You seem to know a lot about this stuff.

Why do you get so defensive after someone tells you something you don't want to hear?

You didn't listen to the advice given and you ended up crying about the side effects and cutting your cycle short. You don't have to be a scientist to understand that androsterone and epiandro are two separate hormones, it's common sense.

[bizzbee]

Excuse me while I take a minute to wipe away the tears from all the awful dizzy spells before I respond to your ridiculous post. The issue here might just very well be dehydration as you alluded to earlier using your broriffic deductive skills. However, I have taken androhard in a previous cycle for about 4 weeks and as you know given your sharp visual acuity that it contains both isomers. I did not have this sort of thing occurring during that cycle and I don't believe throwing two drops of epi in a bucket of andro with this current cycle is going to cause an explosion of ill effects. They are known to work synergistically, given any ratio I would claim, unless you have evidence otherwise.


Why do you get so defensive after someone tells you something you don't want to hear?

You didn't listen to the advice given and you ended up crying about the side effects and cutting your cycle short. You don't have to be a scientist to understand that androsterone and epiandro are two separate hormones, it's common sense.

[TubZy]

Excuse me while I take a minute to wipe away the tears from all the awful dizzy spells before I respond to your ridiculous post. The issue here might just very well be dehydration as you alluded to earlier using your broriffic deductive skills. However, I have taken androhard in a previous cycle for about 4 weeks and as you know given your sharp visual acuity that it contains both isomers. I did not have this sort of thing occurring during that cycle and I don't believe throwing two drops of epi in a bucket of andro with this current cycle is going to cause an explosion of ill effects. They are known to work synergistically, given any ratio I would claim, unless you have evidence otherwise.

I researched and experimented with androsterone in high doses at almost a gram a day and never had the issues you are talking about and wrote about it before Androsterone Thyroid Surrogate Androgen | Anabolic Apex (http://anabolicapex.com/2017/02/11/androsterone/)

So again explain to me where is the bro science? I can back up everything I talk about, you presented zero evidence, but just pure speculation about yourself over the past few pages only to fail even more in the end despite people trying to give you good advice here and you completely ignoring them.

If you did the slightest bit of research, you would understand you don't need liver support in a non methylated prohormone and a topical prohormone cycle, good job. But I'm sure you probably knew that already, since you are never wrong of course.


Ordered some Himalaya LiverCare just now. Will use for on cycle support. Should we use this off cycle during recovery as well?

[bizzbee]

Non-methylated compounds don't guarantee non-existent liver issues. I'm sure you can find examples of this if you do some quick bro-searches on the web. According to recent tests, I had already had some elevated liver enzymes. I thought taking some liver care would be a good preventative measure, certainly couldn't hurt. And it looks like I didn't have to do much digging to find out that this stuff can in fact cause dehydration as you so eagerly rushed to describe in a post on this thread. Coupled with the caffeine I've been drinking I'm sure it could lead to this. So you "researched" (a.k.a went on the web and did some bro-reading) and experimented with androsterone in high doses and have reached the conclusion that since it hasn't caused any problems for you then it shouldn't for others because of course everyone has the same makeup and is physiologically indistinguishable. This is the so-called bulletproof evidence that should completely blow anyone else's theory out of the water. The Academy of Bros should award you their highest honor: Brobel Prize.




I researched and experimented with androsterone in high doses at almost a gram a day and never had the issues you are talking about and wrote about it before Androsterone Thyroid Surrogate Androgen | Anabolic Apex (http://anabolicapex.com/2017/02/11/androsterone/)

So again explain to me where is the bro science? I can back up everything I talk about, you presented zero evidence, but just pure speculation about yourself over the past few pages only to fail even more in the end despite people trying to give you good advice here and you completely ignoring them.

If you did the slightest bit of research, you would understand you don't need liver support in a non methylated prohormone and a topical prohormone cycle, good job. But I'm sure you probably knew that already, since you are never wrong of course.

[Snell1234]

Non-methylated compounds don't guarantee non-existent liver issues. I'm sure you can find examples of this if you do some quick bro-searches on the web. According to recent tests, I had already had some elevated liver enzymes. I thought taking some liver care would be a good preventative measure, certainly couldn't hurt. And it looks like I didn't have to do much digging to find out that this stuff can in fact cause dehydration as you so eagerly rushed to describe in a post on this thread. Coupled with the caffeine I've been drinking I'm sure it could lead to this. So you "researched" (a.k.a went on the web and did some bro-reading) and experimented with androsterone in high doses and have reached the conclusion that since it hasn't caused any problems for you then it shouldn't for others because of course everyone has the same makeup and is physiologically indistinguishable. This is the so-called bulletproof evidence that should completely blow anyone else's theory out of the water. The Academy of Bros should award you their highest honor: Brobel Prize.

How you going at the moment? I saw you mentioned the dizzy spells? I reckon give all prohormones a complete rest now and not take anything and let your body recalibrate. The herbs are powerful too and I probably wouldn't be wanting to put too much in your body if that's the state you are in.

It sounds to me you are suffering from low potassium if you have dizziness and nausea. I would leave everything until your potassium levels restore - this can take a while.

[Swill]

Reign it in gents.

Tubzy is very knowledgeable and when he chimes in is only trying to help. He certainly has helped me in the past. I don’t take his exact route of healing but he certainly knows what he’s doing.

And bizzbee you are a good guy too and are coming from the right place. You can be a little hot headed but can’t we all. I don’t think it was a personal attack on you.

We are all here to learn, recover and grow, and this escalated from helpfulness that was taken as criticism and led to a crash of heads...

We are all here for the same reason, let’s all get on and interact like adults.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jacknap]

lol biz can come across as aspy at times but at the end of the day cool guy. Tubzy def knows his shit and has contributed a lot.

[TubZy]

Non-methylated compounds don't guarantee non-existent liver issues. I'm sure you can find examples of this if you do some quick bro-searches on the web. According to recent tests, I had already had some elevated liver enzymes. I thought taking some liver care would be a good preventative measure, certainly couldn't hurt. And it looks like I didn't have to do much digging to find out that this stuff can in fact cause dehydration as you so eagerly rushed to describe in a post on this thread. Coupled with the caffeine I've been drinking I'm sure it could lead to this. So you "researched" (a.k.a went on the web and did some bro-reading) and experimented with androsterone in high doses and have reached the conclusion that since it hasn't caused any problems for you then it shouldn't for others because of course everyone has the same makeup and is physiologically indistinguishable. This is the so-called bulletproof evidence that should completely blow anyone else's theory out of the water. The Academy of Bros should award you their highest honor: Brobel Prize.

You make no sense, yeah human trials on pubmed and research gate are "bro science" as compared to what? You haven't posted one spec of evidence from anywhere.

Androsterone doesn't cause liver damage there is no evidence of it, absolutely zero. Aside from the actual research on it, I tested it myself at a gram a day and got blood work done and my liver was perfectly fine. It actually has the possibility of lower enzymes since it can lower cholesterol as it was invented specifically for that purpose.

If you have high liver enzymes already, any supplement or high fat foods have the potential of negatively impacting it as it puts extra stress on your liver. You should be looking into other things like TUDCA if your liver is already screwed up, not stacking multiple supplements and hormones on top of each other to to try and put on as much mass as possible.

You say bro science but I guarantee you are getting your info from bodybuilding.com type forums just based on the way you talk lmao.

Caffeine dumps potassium, just like I said in my original post, androsterone can affect potassium channels so you are just proving my point further unintentionally LOL. I don't think you realize that....

You can act like a tough guy or hot head all you want, but like I said post some real evidence and we can debate otherwise you are just wasting time.

[bizzbee]

Boy we are dealing with a real dummy here. I was intentionally using your point to prove my own point. But enough about intentions since it seems you have a bit of trouble understanding intention. My experiences are anecdotal. They are obviously not going to be double-blind, placebo-controlled studies you moron. Just like your experience with androsterone was anecdotal... right
Mr. I-Took-Enough-Androsterone-To-Kill-A-Horse-And-I'm-Fine ? If you are so well read on this subject (which is near impossible given your short brottention span) then perhaps you could cobble together a little bit more than a one liner about how androsterone is so great for cholesterol which sounds like it was ripped right from one of those tacky supplement adverts online. Perhaps you could also detail some of the ill effects, if any, associated with its usage. I for one believe that there can be ill effects associated with its usage and I believe it is tied somehow to the dizzy spells that I've been having and continue to have. Again, it is only a belief given my experiences. Don't expect a fucking write-up that could be published in the most prestigious physiology journals, as if you would even take the time to read such a thing when you could just stick to your bro-manuals on how to get swole. Plus, where the fuck do you get the idea that I was doing this for mass and strength? Did you notice that I'm posting it in the PFS thread and not in the other threads or are you fucking lost?


You make no sense, yeah human trials on pubmed and research gate are "bro science" as compared to what? You haven't posted one spec of evidence from anywhere.

Androsterone doesn't cause liver damage there is no evidence of it, absolutely zero. Aside from the actual research on it, I tested it myself at a gram a day and got blood work done and my liver was perfectly fine. It actually has the possibility of lower enzymes since it can lower cholesterol as it was invented specifically for that purpose.

If you have high liver enzymes already, any supplement or high fat foods have the potential of negatively impacting it as it puts extra stress on your liver. You should be looking into other things like TUDCA if your liver is already screwed up, not stacking multiple supplements and hormones on top of each other to to try and put on as much mass as possible.

You say bro science but I guarantee you are getting your info from bodybuilding.com type forums just based on the way you talk lmao.

Caffeine dumps potassium, just like I said in my original post, androsterone can affect potassium channels so you are just proving my point further unintentionally LOL. I don't think you realize that....

You can act like a tough guy or hot head all you want, but like I said post some real evidence and we can debate otherwise you are just wasting time.

[Snell1234]

You make no sense, yeah human trials on pubmed and research gate are "bro science" as compared to what? You haven't posted one spec of evidence from anywhere.

Androsterone doesn't cause liver damage there is no evidence of it, absolutely zero. Aside from the actual research on it, I tested it myself at a gram a day and got blood work done and my liver was perfectly fine. It actually has the possibility of lower enzymes since it can lower cholesterol as it was invented specifically for that purpose.

If you have high liver enzymes already, any supplement or high fat foods have the potential of negatively impacting it as it puts extra stress on your liver. You should be looking into other things like TUDCA if your liver is already screwed up, not stacking multiple supplements and hormones on top of each other to to try and put on as much mass as possible.

You say bro science but I guarantee you are getting your info from bodybuilding.com type forums just based on the way you talk lmao.

Caffeine dumps potassium, just like I said in my original post, androsterone can affect potassium channels so you are just proving my point further unintentionally LOL. I don't think you realize that....

You can act like a tough guy or hot head all you want, but like I said post some real evidence and we can debate otherwise you are just wasting time.
Ahh another fight for Tubzy. Maybe stick to your site and continue to discuss your shit finger or whatever it is that is the latest protocol.

The fact that you have managed to convince people that you know what you are talking about is one of the biggest frauds of all time.

[TubZy]

Boy we are dealing with a real dummy here. I was intentionally using your point to prove my own point. But enough about intentions since it seems you have a bit of trouble understanding intention. My experiences are anecdotal. They are obviously not going to be double-blind, placebo-controlled studies you moron. Just like your experience with androsterone was anecdotal... right
Mr. I-Took-Enough-Androsterone-To-Kill-A-Horse-And-I'm-Fine ? If you are so well read on this subject (which is near impossible given your short brottention span) then perhaps you could cobble together a little bit more than a one liner about how androsterone is so great for cholesterol which sounds like it was ripped right from one of those tacky supplement adverts online. Perhaps you could also detail some of the ill effects, if any, associated with its usage. I for one believe that there can be ill effects associated with its usage and I believe it is tied somehow to the dizzy spells that I've been having and continue to have. Again, it is only a belief given my experiences. Don't expect a fucking write-up that could be published in the most prestigious physiology journals, as if you would even take the time to read such a thing when you could just stick to your bro-manuals on how to get swole. Plus, where the fuck do you get the idea that I was doing this for mass and strength? Did you notice that I'm posting it in the PFS thread and not in the other threads or are you fucking lost?

OK, like I said complete waste of time, once again nothing but ranting. It is hilarious how defensive you act when people have tried to give you advice on this thread and you end up screwing yourself even more, are you really that mad LOL

When are you going to explain your comment in this thread about "you know why" CD could potentially be scamming people? CD and I both asked you but you never answered, that is odd: Hit piece on PH directed towards me - Page 4 (http://www.swolesource.com/forum/post-finasteride-syndrome/3501-hit-piece-ph-directed-towards-me-4.html)

- - - Updated - - -


Ahh another fight for Tubzy. Maybe stick to your site and continue to discuss your shit finger or whatever it is that is the latest protocol.

The fact that you have managed to convince people that you know what you are talking about is one of the biggest frauds of all time.

You are still following me -weirdo? I guess you still can't resist LOL

[Snell1234]

OK, like I said complete waste of time, once again nothing but ranting. It is hilarious how defensive you act when people have tried to give you advice on this thread and you end up screwing yourself even more, are you really that mad LOL

When you going to explain your comment in this thread about "you know why" CD could potentially be scamming people? CD and I both asked you but you never answered, that is odd: Hit piece on PH directed towards me - Page 4 (http://www.swolesource.com/forum/post-finasteride-syndrome/3501-hit-piece-ph-directed-towards-me-4.html)

- - - Updated - - -



You are still following me -weirdo? I guess you still can't resist LOL

Good luck with your shit finger. The stuff coming out of that place gets more extravagant day by day. Still not one protocol which has been settled on. You guys up to your 20th now?

[TubZy]

Good luck with your shit finger. The stuff coming out of that place gets more extravagant day by day. Still not one protocol which has been settled on. You guys up to your 20th now?

? no idea wht u are talking about

[Snell1234]

? no idea wht u are talking about

I think you do. The first protocol was clomid, then RU, then ACE, then minerals, now the shit finger. They're just the ones off the top of my head. You know exactly what I'm talking about. No one should take your site seriously until you actually settle on a protocol that gets results, like this site has.

[TubZy]

I think you do. The first protocol was clomid, then RU, then ACE, then minerals, now the shit finger. They're just the ones off the top of my head. You know exactly what I'm talking about. No one should take your site seriously until you actually settle on a protocol that gets results, like this site has.

What? And why do you keep following me around making up stuff and stalking me, you posting in this thread which has nothing to do with androsterone, get a life dude

[Pageidol]

Pack it in guys, cant be arsed reading this shit. Just drop it the pair of you please 🙏

[Snell1234]

What? And why do you keep following me around making up stuff and stalking me, you posting in this thread which has nothing to do with androsterone, get a life dude

Coming from you who mentioned me unprovoked on your site a few days ago.

Funny how you can't defend what I said - you know it is true. You should replace the hack stasis emblem with a wild goose and someone chasing it, as that is what you guys are on.

[bizzbee]

Look who's talking or stalking I should say. Quit following ME around and fuck off.



What? And why do you keep following me around making up stuff and stalking me, you posting in this thread which has nothing to do with androsterone, get a life dude

[bizzbee]

I replied right here you dumb shit....

"It's true, I don't really care if you intend to profit off of this. I just wanted full disclosure so I have a better understanding of the motives. "




OK, like I said complete waste of time, once again nothing but ranting. It is hilarious how defensive you act when people have tried to give you advice on this thread and you end up screwing yourself even more, are you really that mad LOL

When are you going to explain your comment in this thread about "you know why" CD could potentially be scamming people? CD and I both asked you but you never answered, that is odd: Hit piece on PH directed towards me - Page 4 (http://www.swolesource.com/forum/post-finasteride-syndrome/3501-hit-piece-ph-directed-towards-me-4.html)

- - - Updated - - -



You are still following me -weirdo? I guess you still can't resist LOL

[biatch]

I don't want to get in the middle of the fight, cause it is not my business but seriously, I feel sorry to read this since we are all here for a common serious accident happened to us.

[Swill]

Time to grow up everyone


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TubZy]

Coming from you who mentioned me unprovoked on your site a few days ago.

Funny how you can't defend what I said - you know it is true. You should replace the hack stasis emblem with a wild goose and someone chasing it, as that is what you guys are on.

You have no evidence that I did anything you just said. You are only here because you have been banned from 99% of all other PFS type forums explains why you keep making stuff up. Obviously you and bizzbee talk shit in PM about the protocol and CD, bizzbee even called you out in the hit piece thread. In public you dick ride so hard here and talk shit in private, I give it another month before you are banned on here too.

You could care less about this protocol you were dick riding other protocols a month ago until they got sick of you as well and you ended back here.

[TubZy]

I replied right here you dumb shit....

"It's true, I don't really care if you intend to profit off of this. I just wanted full disclosure so I have a better understanding of the motives. "

No you didn't, that was was in response to the first quote of CD's response. He even put question marks and you ignored it twice.

Even in that answer you said it was even wrong, he does provide full disclosure. He even questioned you on that as well and you had no evidence. It seems both you and your friend Snell like to make shit up about people with no evidence behind it.

You never answered the "you know why" part to your buddy Snell. So what do you mean by "you know why" then? Why would you and snell know "why" CD could be scamming people. It seems this conversation was exclusive between you and Snell only. Believe me CD would like to hear this answer as well.

[bizzbee]

Time for your meds. Such frightful fantasies of collusion, conspiring, and secret messaging belongs in the psyche ward. Take your candy ass the fuck out of here you fucking fairy.


No you didn't, that was was in response to the first quote of CD's response. He even put question marks and you ignored it twice.

You never answered the "you know why" part to your buddy Snell. So what do you mean by "you know why" then? Why would you and snell know "why" CD could be scamming people. It seems this conversation was exclusive between you and Snell only. Believe me CD would like to hear this answer as well.

[TubZy]

Time for your meds. Such frightful fantasies of collusion, conspiring, and secret messaging belongs in the psyche ward. Take your candy ass the fuck out of here you fucking fairy.

Exactly, keep avoiding the question LOL, point proven. I guess CD needs meds too then, we are both still wondering since you don't have the comprehension of reading and responding to a simple question.

I think you hit your head when you passed out from "dehydration", lost your ability to think.

[bizzbee]

It seems clear to me after calling for a little disclosure and maybe throwing in a little insinuation in there that CD is somehow profiting off of this. Does that answer your question fairy boy? You think I give a shit if I get banned on this forum? Like your best bud CD has said numerous times, "you have everything you need to recover right here", on PH. I don't have to chronicle my experiences here if don't want to. I can go elsewhere or better yet focus on getting better without having to respond to fucktards like you by avoiding forums like this altogether.


Exactly, keep avoiding the question LOL. I guess CD needs meds too then, we were both wondering.

I think you hit your head when you passed out from "dehydration", lost your ability to think.

[TubZy]

It seems clear to me after calling for a little disclosure and maybe throwing in a little insinuation in there that CD is somehow profiting off of this. Does that answer your question fairy boy? You think I give a shit if I get banned on this forum? Like your best bud CD has said numerous times, "you have everything you need to recover right here", on PH. I don't have to chronicle my experiences here if don't want to. I can go elsewhere or better yet focus on getting better without having to respond to fucktards like you by avoiding forums like this altogether.

Thanks that is all I needed from my end. I knew you would finally snap given how unstable you are.

Exactly if you don't give a shit just proves my point that you would talk shit about the protocol and CD. Yeah, specifically quoting your best bud Snell and saying "you know why" CD can scam people is just a little insinuation. Keep screwing yourself up buddy and ignoring any logical advice that people have given you in this thread. You were responding to other "fucktards" way before I joined in this thread.

[Snell1234]

You have no evidence that I did anything you just said. You are only here because you have been banned from 99% of all other PFS type forums explains why you keep making stuff up. Obviously you and bizzbee talk shit in PM about the protocol and CD, bizzbee even called you out in the hit piece thread. In public you dick ride so hard here and talk shit in private, I give it another month before you are banned on here too.

You could care less about this protocol you were dick riding other protocols a month ago until they got sick of you as well and you ended back here.

Have no evidence?


"TubZy
Administrator
Staff member
Dec 8, 2017#73
gbolduev post_id=6231 time=1512669719 user_id=90 said:
TubZy post_id=6228 time=1512668709 user_id=2 said:
OK, I see it is a protocol that addresses many issues PFS being o e of them, wouldn't it just be easier taking a multi vitamin or b complex with the added aminos? If someone were to go that route?
It says to take bee pollen pine pollen, brewest yeast with aminos and eat a lot of spinach with kale, beets, for folate. And juice breuss, which has all the sulfur you need
Thanks. OK, I guess I will have both protocols then. One that upregualte zinc finger (this protocol) and one that down regulates it (prog/pred).

Have you tried this on yourself yet?

I eat lots of greens...please not pine pollen again LOL
like it, but gave me anxiety and mild histamine reaction I think from the hormones in it, this was a while ago. I used pine pollen powder.

I was talking about your buddy who never stopped asking questions about it lol
Like Reply Report
gbolduev
gbolduev
Member
Staff member
Dec 8, 2017#76
TubZy post_id=6242 time=1512672630 user_id=2 said:
gbolduev post_id=6240 time=1512672441 user_id=90 said:
you dont like pine pollen powder?
I like it, but gave me anxiety and mild histamine reaction I think from the hormones in it, this was a while ago. I used pine pollen powder.

I was talking about your buddy who never stopped asking questions about it lol
Lol my buddy Snell? Yeah, I hope he is doing ok."

There's another lie from you proven in full.

Banned from other forums? You banned me from yours because you didn't like me pointing out facts in relation to your saviour. Namely that he chops and changes his protocol every week and no one has been cured from anything he has said to do. You had a hissy fit and banned me when I asked him questions of this nature.

Happy to open up my PMs as I've never PM'd bizzbee once. I was actually the one who called him out. I've never spoken shit about CD once. Go to solvepfs. Read my posts there what I say about him.

And again - I'm not sure if comprehension was ever a good skill of yours - I have said to you about 50 times now that I have only ever done one protocol since finding cdnut's protcol 12 months ago and that is his. Before finding his, sure. I did heaps of things. But since 12 months ago, not one thing outside of his protocol. I went on your site to hear out gbol but I soon realised that whilst his knowledge is good, he is yet to have any quick fix to this issue which he seems to promise.

I'm happy for you to have a go at me. But don't you dare lie about what I have done in regards to protocols. I will not cop that. As I am nearly fully recovered and when I write my recovery post, I don't want new posters to think I was doing this and doing that when that is factually not the case.

I think it's best you exited this forum for good and stayed in your cess pit over at hack stasis.

And talk shit in private? Are you serious? I barely post or write anything these days anyway. I think your life is too consumed with worrying about forums. It's not healthy. No one else really cares.

And want to know why "I talk shit in private" is a lie from you? Last time you threatened to post all PMs from my account at hack stasis. If there was anything in them of that nature, they'd be posted. Go through them. I know you already would have because you are an unethical person running a shocking forum. There is nothing there.

You can write how much of a prick you think I am and that's fine (I think you are a prick with the way you run your forum and how you react so personally to things that aren't personal in nature. I think you are a prick for how vindictive you are and how you stoop low to try to win an argument by lying and making accusations you know are untrue).But stop with all the wild conspiracy theories (which to be honest show that you aren't exactly of sound mind at the moment) and all the ridiculous accusations that are plainly not true.

[Snell1234]

Also, again I said this last time. Anyone who reads these posts can now see the type of guy Tubzy is and can make their mind up whether they want to have anything to do with a guy who is only now beginning to show his true colours. I saw them a while ago before everyone else due to personal dealings. Now they are being played out in full for everyone else to see.

[bizzbee]

Good, I'm glad you're ready to finally fuck off and glad you've admitted you're not the only "fucktard". Why don't you trot over to CD and tell him what a good dog you've been.


Thanks that is all I needed from my end. I knew you would finally snap given how unstable you are.

Exactly if you don't give a shit just proves my point that you would talk shit about the protocol and CD. Yeah, specifically quoting your best bud Snell and saying "you know why" CD can scam people is just a little insinuation. Keep screwing yourself up buddy and ignoring any logical advice that people have given you in this thread. You were responding to other "fucktards" way before I joined in this thread.

[biatch]

Seriously all this conversation is miserable at a point that you can't even imagine.

[TubZy]

Have no evidence?


"TubZy
Administrator
Staff member
Dec 8, 2017#73
gbolduev post_id=6231 time=1512669719 user_id=90 said:
TubZy post_id=6228 time=1512668709 user_id=2 said:
OK, I see it is a protocol that addresses many issues PFS being o e of them, wouldn't it just be easier taking a multi vitamin or b complex with the added aminos? If someone were to go that route?
It says to take bee pollen pine pollen, brewest yeast with aminos and eat a lot of spinach with kale, beets, for folate. And juice breuss, which has all the sulfur you need
Thanks. OK, I guess I will have both protocols then. One that upregualte zinc finger (this protocol) and one that down regulates it (prog/pred).

Have you tried this on yourself yet?

I eat lots of greens...please not pine pollen again LOL
like it, but gave me anxiety and mild histamine reaction I think from the hormones in it, this was a while ago. I used pine pollen powder.

I was talking about your buddy who never stopped asking questions about it lol
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gbolduev
gbolduev
Member
Staff member
Dec 8, 2017#76
TubZy post_id=6242 time=1512672630 user_id=2 said:
gbolduev post_id=6240 time=1512672441 user_id=90 said:
you dont like pine pollen powder?
I like it, but gave me anxiety and mild histamine reaction I think from the hormones in it, this was a while ago. I used pine pollen powder.

I was talking about your buddy who never stopped asking questions about it lol
Lol my buddy Snell? Yeah, I hope he is doing ok."

There's another lie from you proven in full.

Banned from other forums? You banned me from yours because you didn't like me pointing out facts in relation to your saviour. Namely that he chops and changes his protocol every week and no one has been cured from anything he has said to do. You had a hissy fit and banned me when I asked him questions of this nature.

Happy to open up my PMs as I've never PM'd bizzbee once. I was actually the one who called him out. I've never spoken shit about CD once. Go to solvepfs. Read my posts there what I say about him.

And again - I'm not sure if comprehension was ever a good skill of yours - I have said to you about 50 times now that I have only ever done one protocol since finding cdnut's protcol 12 months ago and that is his. Before finding his, sure. I did heaps of things. But since 12 months ago, not one thing outside of his protocol. I went on your site to hear out gbol but I soon realised that whilst his knowledge is good, he is yet to have any quick fix to this issue which he seems to promise.

I'm happy for you to have a go at me. But don't you dare lie about what I have done in regards to protocols. I will not cop that. As I am nearly fully recovered and when I write my recovery post, I don't want new posters to think I was doing this and doing that when that is factually not the case.

I think it's best you exited this forum for good and stayed in your cess pit over at hack stasis.

And talk shit in private? Are you serious? I barely post or write anything these days anyway. I think your life is too consumed with worrying about forums. It's not healthy. No one else really cares.

And want to know why "I talk shit in private" is a lie from you? Last time you threatened to post all PMs from my account at hack stasis. If there was anything in them of that nature, they'd be posted. Go through them. I know you already would have because you are an unethical person running a shocking forum. There is nothing there.

You can write how much of a prick you think I am and that's fine (I think you are a prick with the way you run your forum and how you react so personally to things that aren't personal in nature. I think you are a prick for how vindictive you are and how you stoop low to try to win an argument by lying and making accusations you know are untrue).But stop with all the wild conspiracy theories (which to be honest show that you aren't exactly of sound mind at the moment) and all the ridiculous accusations that are plainly not true.

You are butthurt because I said you ask a lot questions about pine pollen? There are multiple cures so far, you don't see the logs because you are banned lol. And you do know there are multiple people on CD's protocol too, I hope?

People wanted you banned because you harassed everyone for a new protocol everyday and you are still looking for new protocols because you visit HS on a daily basis haha. I didn't ban you out of no where everyone wanted you banned and you even agreed that you would do a "favor for everyone and stop posting" you said it yourself. Then you were begging me to unban you and still can't stop harassing me even until this day like in this thread, you posted nothing about androsterone but specifically came in here to attack me.

This was what a little over a month ago? I thought I was a stand up guy. You even admitted you had a problem with a moderator and not me. The ironic thing is you were saying you didn't have time to worry about hurting other people's feelings yet you get butthurt when someone says you ask a lot of questions about pine pollen lol. Just goes to show you are completely a different person in private vs public -can't be trusted
https://i.imgur.com/zPu5wRk.png

[Snell1234]

You are butthurt because I said you ask a lot questions about pine pollen? There are multiple cures so far, you don't see the logs because you are banned lol. And you do know there are multiple people on CD's protocol too, I hope?


People wanted you banned because you harassed everyone for a new protocol everyday and you are still looking for new protocols because you visit HS on a daily basis haha. I didn't ban you everyone wanted you banned and you even agreed that you would do a "favor for everyone and stop posting" you said it yourself. Then you were begging me to unban you and still can't stop harassing me even until this day.

This was what a little over a month ago? I thought I was a stand up guy. You even admitted you had a problem with a moderator and not me. Just goes to show you are completely a different person in private vs public.
https://i.imgur.com/zPu5wRk.png

In that pm I was trying to keep the peace with you after our previous blow up. Are you a stand up guy? Of course you aren’t. It’s called being diplomatic. I have no reason to be diplomatic any more as you are a scumbag.

You banned me due to a post I made here. Don’t try and make it about everybody else. I was banned when I posted on this forum that what was going over on your site was horse shit.

Did others get annoyed on that forum when I called out your saviour? Yes they probably did. Something I don’t back away from and quite frankly don’t care if the sheep following you and this guy got upset at some facts I pointed out.

Seriously - see a shrink about your lying. You have all the traits of a sociopath.

To come here and say you didn’t ban me when you know you did when you had a hissy fit over a post of mine here shows me that you have a few screws loose up top.

I actually think you should be banned from this forum to be honest.

And I never once “begged” to be unbanned. I told you to get rid of one of your cronies who is a moderator and that I would recommence posting. I love how you pick a quote and then completely take it out of context to fit your argument.

And more lies from you. You say I posted every day. I barely posted on your forum and when you got shitty with me was when I had one post after a big lay off from not posting asking the guy to put up or shut up.

These lies are incredible.

[Snell1234]

In all seriousness, you have your own site now. Why don’t you bugger off back to that and stop posting here. We don’t do abortion drugs and clomid here my friend.

Stay over there and stop picking fights with everyone here.

[TubZy]

In that pm I was trying to keep the peace with you after our previous blow up. Are you a stand up guy? Of course you aren’t. It’s called being diplomatic. I have no reason to be diplomatic any more as you are a scumbag.

You banned me due to a post I made here. Don’t try and make it about everybody else. I was banned when I posted on this forum that what was going over on your site was horse shit.

Did others get annoyed on that forum when I called out your saviour? Yes they probably did. Something I don’t back away from and quite frankly don’t care if the sheep following you and this guy got upset at some facts I pointed out.

Seriously - see a shrink about your lying. You have all the traits of a sociopath.

To come here and say you didn’t ban me when you know you did when you had a hissy fit over a post of mine here shows me that you have a few screws loose up top.

I actually think you should be banned from this forum to be honest.

And I never once “begged” to be unbanned. I told you to get rid of one of your cronies who is a moderator and that I would recommence posting. I love how you pick a quote and then completely take it out of context to fit your argument.

And more lies from you. You say I posted every day. I barely posted on your forum and when you got shitty with me was when I had one post after a big lay off from not posting asking the guy to put up or shut up.

These lies are incredible.

After you were banned, you sent me this PM on this forum regarding the moderator that you didn't like trying to get back on HS:

"I'm happy to edit my posts criticising hack stasis here provided namaste is removed as a moderator or at the very least you disassociate yourself from what he said to me in those private messages. You were copied in on them, you saw what he said and he even said you were in "full agreement" with him. I will delete all criticism of you and hack stasis provided a bit of fairness is given back my way."

https://i.imgur.com/iFxT946.png

- - - Updated - - -


In all seriousness, you have your own site now. Why don’t you bugger off back to that and stop posting here. We don’t do abortion drugs and clomid here my friend.

Stay over there and stop picking fights with everyone here.

You are like a 12 year old kid, how about stop following me around into threads and harassing me like this one. You don't own this forum or have any authority so no.

[bizzbee]

You don't have any authority here either Pinocchio. Any air of authority you may have had initially has totally evaporated. Mods, can't we get this imbecile off this thread?


After you were banned, you sent me this PM on this forum regarding the moderator that you didn't like trying to get back on HS:

"I'm happy to edit my posts criticising hack stasis here provided namaste is removed as a moderator or at the very least you disassociate yourself from what he said to me in those private messages. You were copied in on them, you saw what he said and he even said you were in "full agreement" with him. I will delete all criticism of you and hack stasis provided a bit of fairness is given back my way."

https://i.imgur.com/iFxT946.png

- - - Updated - - -



How about stop following me around into threads and harassing me like this one. You don't own this forum or have any authority so no.

[Swill]

This is getting humiliating now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TubZy]

You don't have any authority here either Pinocchio. Any air of authority you may have had initially has totally evaporated. Mods, can't we get this imbecile off this thread?

And I'm not telling anyone to leave? CD is the mod you dumbass

[bizzbee]

Right....ok great thanks for letting us know. Now shoo off please, quit hijacking this thread.


And I'm not telling anyone to leave? CD is the mod you dumbass

[Snell1234]

On your way. Just go. You are a joke.

- - - Updated - - -

And to respond,where did I beg there? No begging from what I can read.

Now on your bike, piss off back to hack wild goose chase stasis.

[Durantia37]

Wait...there's an ignore user function?? You mean, I can never have to read bizzbee's posts again?? How do you use it?

[TubZy]

Wait...there's an ignore user function?? You mean, I can never have to read bizzbee's posts again?? How do you use it?

Yeah, it is a life saver lol. Go to their profile and click ignore this user

[Durantia37]

Yeah, it is a life saver lol. Go to their profile and click ignore this user

Sweet thanks dude

[Snell1234]

Come on bizz, I’ve backed you up against tubzy but there’s no need to bag out CD like that.

With all the attacks on him lately, he must be wondering why he’s helped a lot of us over the years. He’s helped me enormously and some people aren’t really paying their dues back for the effort he’s gone to.

[bizzbee]

They are paying their dues back, in the form of herbs and supplements that he advertises. He's not going to go through with all this effort solely out of the kindness of his heart, there has to be something else in it for him as well. He's created a virtual cult here. I merely questioned the wisdom of rotating over 21 herbs and the backlash I received by suggesting any kind of deviation from his Manson-like followers is astonishing. This is apparently not the place I had hoped it would be, where freedom of experimentation and thought is valued. I have people attacking me for things I didn't even do such as confuse the difference between two isomers on a bottle of prohormones, and this by some nincompoop who probably couldn't finish his GED. I don't think I will post my experiences or progress here if this continues to be the case. This thread has taken up literally hours of my time because I have to contend with jobless fools living in their parent's basement and with plenty of time to act like immature buffoons over the internet because of the afforded anonymity and bandwidth. Well my bandwidth for this kind of nonsense has reached its limit. I have a career to look after and a body on the verge of recovery and I don't have time for this disgustingly puerile banter. You seem to be close to recovery. I wish you success in that regard.



Come on bizz, I’ve backed you up against tubzy but there’s no need to bag out CD like that.

With all the attacks on him lately, he must be wondering why he’s helped a lot of us over the years. He’s helped me enormously and some people aren’t really paying their dues back for the effort he’s gone to.

[Snell1234]

They are paying their dues back, in the form of herbs and supplements that he advertises. He's not going to go through with all this effort solely out of the kindness of his heart, there has to be something else in it for him as well. He's created a virtual cult here. I merely questioned the wisdom of rotating over 21 herbs and the backlash I received by suggesting any kind of deviation from his Manson-like followers is astonishing. This is apparently not the place I had hoped it would be, where freedom of experimentation and thought is valued. I have people attacking me for things I didn't even do such as confuse the difference between two isomers on a bottle of prohormones, and this by some nincompoop who probably couldn't finish his GED. I don't think I will post my experiences or progress here if this continues to be the case. This thread has taken up literally hours of my time because I have to contend with jobless fools living in their parent's basement and with plenty of time to act like immature buffoons over the internet because of the afforded anonymity and bandwidth. Well my bandwidth for this kind of nonsense has reached its limit. I have a career to look after and a body on the verge of recovery and I don't have time for this disgustingly puerile banter. You seem to be close to recovery. I wish you success in that regard.

Back on that topic again are we? I thought he made his position very clear. Obviously not clear enough. How Tubzy dealt with you was wrong but what you have written there is a disgrace to be honest.

[biatch]

If biatch agrees with you, then I think that pretty much settles it in terms of who is right...

Everything I have said about you I have evidence for. Your saviour is on his 20th protocol now which he can’t even provide full details for, no one has been cured quickly as he promised and therefore you guys are wasting time when you could be knuckling down and doing the protocol we have here.

Please guys, do not mention my name regarding your fight since I did not express any comment about it and it is not my intention to do so.
Thanks

[Snell1234]

Please guys, do not mention my name regarding your fight since I did not express any comment about it and it is not my intention to do so.
Thanks
Tubzy said in his post that you agreed with him. So another lie from Tubzy again.

[Durantia37]

Tubzy said in his post that you agreed with him. So another lie from Tubzy again.

Bro..I'm not taking sides, but can you please just drop this shit? Nobody cares.

[Maxout777]

This thread and this place is becoming embarrassing.

Guys, we're discussing a disorder that causes ED and lack of sex drive yet there seems to be a bit of "mines bigger" going on here.

If there's one thing my journey did for me, it was enabling me to be a more humble person, which I wasn't before. I suggest a few of you guys try that on for size as well.

[jacknap]

This thread and this place is becoming embarrassing.

Guys, we're discussing a disorder that causes ED and lack of sex drive yet there seems to be a bit of "mines bigger" going on here.

If there's one thing my journey did for me, it was enabling me to be a more humble person, which I wasn't before. I suggest a few of you guys try that on for size as well.

lol that's just people in general. I agree though. I also participate on a soccer forum for fun yet people still manage to attack each other on that. I think it's also stress related cuz I remember when I was really stressed out I lashed out at people more.

Meditation helps this a lot.

[Cdsnuts]

They are paying their dues back, in the form of herbs and supplements that he advertises. He's not going to go through with all this effort solely out of the kindness of his heart, there has to be something else in it for him as well. He's created a virtual cult here. I merely questioned the wisdom of rotating over 21 herbs and the backlash I received by suggesting any kind of deviation from his Manson-like followers is astonishing. This is apparently not the place I had hoped it would be, where freedom of experimentation and thought is valued. I have people attacking me for things I didn't even do such as confuse the difference between two isomers on a bottle of prohormones, and this by some nincompoop who probably couldn't finish his GED. I don't think I will post my experiences or progress here if this continues to be the case. This thread has taken up literally hours of my time because I have to contend with jobless fools living in their parent's basement and with plenty of time to act like immature buffoons over the internet because of the afforded anonymity and bandwidth. Well my bandwidth for this kind of nonsense has reached its limit. I have a career to look after and a body on the verge of recovery and I don't have time for this disgustingly puerile banter. You seem to be close to recovery. I wish you success in that regard.

Damn...I take a couple weeks off from technology and look at this shitshow.

You're obviously harboring alot of resentment towards me.....Despite all the help I've given you, and despite the fact that you're "on the verge of recovery" because of the protocol you're following, I would think you'd be happy about that. Instead you slam me?

Thanks Biz. You're welcome. I'm pretty sure you're the one who was always commenting about how I'm always here to help?

Not sure why you're so focused on the financials of everything? The protocol stands on it's own regardless. It works, that's all that matters. I'd say most other people agree.

In regards to you "questioning the wisdom" of rotating 21 herbs. You're still suffering.....no?

I'm not. And neither are a good majority of guys that have followed the plan exactly as it's laid out.

You can do what ever you want. But anybody that does a little research can see the obvious benefit of hitting the T boosting herbs from all angles. Simply put, you're just going to get better results with a variety of herbs....not just three.

Any body chiming in on that was just trying to help you.

It's guys like you who make me question why I bother sometimes. Nothing like biting the hand that feeds you. I've done nothing but help you along the way and this is how you show your thanks?

If that's how you really feel, then maybe it's time for you to move along. I mean, if you're going to be questioning the wisdom of the whole thing, you may as well just stop.....all of it. And do your own thing. Just make sure it looks nothing like what is recommended here. Otherwise, it would be kind of hypocritical.....no?

Good luck to you.

[Cdsnuts]

First of all, hi to all guys i'm new here but it's been a long time i've reading your discussions and i found this site interesting.
English is not my native language, so i'm sorry if i made mistakes here and there trying to write things right.
About me: graduate in Physics, specializing in Cosmology but stopped due to problems in my life. I'm 34 years old. Long story of depression that it's almost disappeared now thanks to TRT. However i worked for Bayer for almost a year (in 2005) in studying long term effects of Mesterolone (Proviron here in Italy) (i was one of his lab rats, and i contributed to the study and conclusions on Proviron.) Here's the original study (not the one i've participated, because was never officially published. This one was long-term although the one i've participated was much longer): [Effects of long-term use of mesterolone on different urine metabolites in andrological patients (author's transl)]. - PubMed - NCBI (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6455971)
I'm sorry for the short introduction and lack of english, but i keep thing short because Xanax over my 15 year abuse has ruined my brain and memory, only beginning to recover now thanks to my doctor that finally decided to put me on TRT seeing how much Mesterolone has improved my life (seeing low T lab results don't do much here in Italy, doctors see Testosterone as evil here....no more words on this).
However, seeing this forum as a good place for information, i must point out some mistakes that i want to share just because i don't want disinformation to ruin someone's life.
I decided to write here after seeing the debate that's going on; apart from the shame it caused in the last pages, i see you guys are very helpful in sharing your Prohormone runs and results for everyone who suffer from some form of depression (i've never used Finasteride or Dutasteride or any 5 AR blocker in my life, but being a depressive-bipolar-adhd sufferer as a child, i want to share my little contrbution). Hope it helps. I see CDnuts and Tubzy as very pleasant and informed person, but....Tubzy there's one BIG thing i have to disagree with as can be very dangerous to someone trying to cure himself. Androsterone has GABA agonism, very potent but not to the extent of other neurosteroids (3a,17a Androstanediol is more potent, although less androgenic; the most potent in human body however is Allopregnanolone, 5 alpha reduced-3a hydroxy dehidrogenated Progesterone). It's not the same for Epiandrosterone, quite the opposite: Epi is the stereoisomer that actually has agonism to the GABA C receptor BUT it's a NEGATIVE allosteric modulator, act on GABA A receptor as an ANTAGONIST (so diminishing benzodiazepine-like effects) stimulates the NMDA receptor, (similarly to DHEA and almost every stereoisomer) resulting in an excitatory neurosteroid (similarly to DHEA) that can augment anxiety diminishing chloride-channel signaling; and it can be even dangerous to our hearts (in high amounts and for prolonged period of use) blocking Calcium Ca2+ channels. Every 3b neurosterid share that similar characteristics, that's why our bodies have much higher amounts of 3a reduced steroids (when all function properly). Sorry i would not be seen as rude or prig, especially because i know in forums everyone who has low post count is seen as "noob" (correct??). However sorry to everyone i have problem with english and in communicating (even if i'm behind a monitor) but i am used to work and live alone, only with numbers and formulas and i don't know how to act with people. However i can try to do my best if someone want to communicate with me. Don't get bothered if i don't respond or write even for days, i can only write when i feel i can. Hope i can help. Bye everyone.

Wrong place for this post. Start a new thread.

[Cdsnuts]

Seeing as I missed this and it's already been up for a few weeks, I'm going to leave it.

But I'm going to say this:

The next time any forum member attacks another member with name calling and juvenile slights, they're going to get a little vacation, all expenses paid by yours truly.

Keep your shit together....really guys. This thread was a pathetic showing, worthy of Propecia Help.

[bizzbee]

I don't harbor resentment over this, just disappointment. I was expecting some disclosure regarding your financial motives and instead I got what appeared to be some evasiveness. What do I care if someone want's to make a buck on the side if the protocol works? I care because when the prospect of financial gain and truly empathic giving become intermingled then it evokes some ethically questionable and interesting situations. I won't expound on it here as I'm sure we can all imagine such situations on our own.
Let us be honest here, those that give out of true generosity don't expect to be given appreciation in the form of added loyalty or unquestioning of certain aspects of this "protocol" you've attributed to yourself. And what is it we're really talking about here? Taking cold showers...ingesting some herbs...proper sleep hygiene...working out...eating a paleo diet...groundbreaking right? No. I could have easily gotten this information from reading a few health magazines and books (and I did in fact, before you ever put up your website).
To liken members here to dogs that may bite the hand of the "owner" that feeds them betrays a sense of entitlement that you don't deserve. A hypocrite is not someone who questions the wisdom of others, it is someone who feigns to possess certain virtues or principles. Am I devoid of principles now because I question the wisdom of others? I see you had PVDL banned. He had some legitimate questions for you, it's too bad we never got an answer to them. Good luck trying to patent something like this. You'll be just another muscle-head with a degree in bro-science trying to sell some worthless powder to a bunch of noobs.


Damn...I take a couple weeks off from technology and look at this shitshow.

You're obviously harboring alot of resentment towards me.....Despite all the help I've given you, and despite the fact that you're "on the verge of recovery" because of the protocol you're following, I would think you'd be happy about that. Instead you slam me?

Thanks Biz. You're welcome. I'm pretty sure you're the one who was always commenting about how I'm always here to help?

Not sure why you're so focused on the financials of everything? The protocol stands on it's own regardless. It works, that's all that matters. I'd say most other people agree.

In regards to you "questioning the wisdom" of rotating 21 herbs. You're still suffering.....no?

I'm not. And neither are a good majority of guys that have followed the plan exactly as it's laid out.

You can do what ever you want. But anybody that does a little research can see the obvious benefit of hitting the T boosting herbs from all angles. Simply put, you're just going to get better results with a variety of herbs....not just three.

Any body chiming in on that was just trying to help you.

It's guys like you who make me question why I bother sometimes. Nothing like biting the hand that feeds you. I've done nothing but help you along the way and this is how you show your thanks?

If that's how you really feel, then maybe it's time for you to move along. I mean, if you're going to be questioning the wisdom of the whole thing, you may as well just stop.....all of it. And do your own thing. Just make sure it looks nothing like what is recommended here. Otherwise, it would be kind of hypocritical.....no?

Good luck to you.

[jacknap]

didn't u say yourself that it took you like 8 years before you locked down the diet/gym aspect though?

also good luck finding androsterone, the right T-boosting herbs, and prolonged water fasting. (not sure if I would have found all this stuff myself)

guys who have recovered like chi, english, entropy etc. aren't around and 'helped from the good of their heart.' They moved on with their lives.

Cd's ambition to combine goodwill and commerce gives him the motivational leverage to still be helping guys years later.

I appreciate that you're willing to play devil's advocate though and not just follow like a sheep.

I just hope that CD still sticks around to help the people that are grateful for it. I don't know if I would have recovered as far as I did if he just ditched the scene and all I had left was his recovery post. Actually interacting with him has been a god send and helped clarify things more.

He can only help those that want to be helped.

[Cdsnuts]

I don't harbor resentment over this, just disappointment. I was expecting some disclosure regarding your financial motives and instead I got what appeared to be some evasiveness. What do I care if someone want's to make a buck on the side if the protocol works? I care because when the prospect of financial gain and truly empathic giving become intermingled then it evokes some ethically questionable and interesting situations. I won't expound on it here as I'm sure we can all imagine such situations on our own.
Let us be honest here, those that give out of true generosity don't expect to be given appreciation in the form of added loyalty or unquestioning of certain aspects of this "protocol" you've attributed to yourself. And what is it we're really talking about here? Taking cold showers...ingesting some herbs...proper sleep hygiene...working out...eating a paleo diet...groundbreaking right? No. I could have easily gotten this information from reading a few health magazines and books (and I did in fact, before you ever put up your website).
To liken members here to dogs that may bite the hand of the "owner" that feeds them betrays a sense of entitlement that you don't deserve. A hypocrite is not someone who questions the wisdom of others, it is someone who feigns to possess certain virtues or principles. Am I devoid of principles now because I question the wisdom of others? I see you had PVDL banned. He had some legitimate questions for you, it's too bad we never got an answer to them. Good luck trying to patent something like this. You'll be just another muscle-head with a degree in bro-science trying to sell some worthless powder to a bunch of noobs.

You completely miss the point Biz.

I've been helping guys long before the website was ever created. How much of my precious time do you think I can possibly dedicate to doing so if there is not some type of gain for that time. I'm sure you've heard the saying time is money. As rough as that might sound, I have a life to live. I run a full time business and household. The reason the website was created is because more and more of my time was going towards this while it was taking away the time I would spend on other things that I needed to run my life.

And you could have easily gotten all of the information about the protocol on your own huh? BS. If that's the case, you would have. Everyone would have. It took me years to put the information together and have it tested on myself and others who have used it in the combinations described here. Come on...let's not be ridiculous.

And yes....I've done nothing but help you, and you have done nothing but slight me....great trade off, huh?

I tell you what I don't deserve....the disrespect you're showing me. And PVDL...are you serious? The guy is completely negative, and despite the results this program gets people, he didn't want to hear anything about it. I have better things to do with my time then to argue with someone who isn't going to listen. It would have been a complete waste of time. He had his agenda, which was clear from the beginning. He can yell fraudulent all he wants. If that was the case, the guys that rallied around this place wouldn't have done so? They must be all on the take too, right?

It appears your time here has come to an end. If that's how you feel, there really is no reason for you to stay here any longer. Go read your health magazines. I'm sure you'll work it all out. But don't stick around if your going to sit here an insult me. It's completely unwarranted.

And Broscience? You mean, science? The science that you've been following and as per yourself, recovering? Lol... And by worthless powder, you mean the herbs that everybody is rotating and getting fantastic results with? You are a bitter man Biz.

Everybody is here because they're getting results, and because they want to be here. You seem to be focused on something other then your own healing.

[jacknap]

one thing I take my hat too is despite bizbee's disagreeable nature, the dude takes action. So happy recovery buddy lol.

[Hulk Smash]

Bizzbee,

I don't get you man. It sounds like you're following the regimen or atleast most of the main points of it, and you're getting results. Right?

If that's not the case then why have you been on this forum all this time? You don't make sense.

Just put your money where your mouth is 110% with the regimen. Come back in a year and let us know if you've improved or not. Then you have a real argument. Until then, you sound petty. I come to your thread to read about your improvements man, not this crap.

Hope you recover soon.

[bizzbee]

You are quickly becoming the laughing stock of the PFS community. This is not something I recommend you just simply brush off. I'm sure you've read the posts of various detractors and skeptics. The latest one from solvepfs.com involving a screen name containing the letters "XP" comes to mind as a remarkable instance of what happens when you don't firmly disclose your interests upfront; just read for yourself this latest one in order to get a glimpse at the lengths in which some of these people will go in order to discredit an approach to healing. Some of things mentioned seem wildly far-fetched but people who are in compromised positions are likely to believe almost anything. This evasiveness has given zealots like PVDL and XP ammunition to further discredit the movement you and others have started here. I know what their fucking agenda is. They've made it all too clear: recovery is not possible until we've all funneled enough money into the foundation and waited a long enough time to see a cure. All of us here know that THAT is a somewhat far-fetched proposition, that even if true, most of us aren't willing to wait that long. Quashing these sorts rumors and accusations upfront would not have been a waste of time. It would have lent you more credibility and perhaps more followers. Now the skepticism and cynicism has become rampant.



You completely miss the point Biz.

I've been helping guys long before the website was ever created. How much of my precious time do you think I can possibly dedicate to doing so if there is not some type of gain for that time. I'm sure you've heard the saying time is money. As rough as that might sound, I have a life to live. I run a full time business and household. The reason the website was created is because more and more of my time was going towards this while it was taking away the time I would spend on other things that I needed to run my life.

And you could have easily gotten all of the information about the protocol on your own huh? BS. If that's the case, you would have. Everyone would have. It took me years to put the information together and have it tested on myself and others who have used it in the combinations described here. Come on...let's not be ridiculous.

And yes....I've done nothing but help you, and you have done nothing but slight me....great trade off, huh?

I tell you what I don't deserve....the disrespect you're showing me. And PVDL...are you serious? The guy is completely negative, and despite the results this program gets people, he didn't want to hear anything about it. I have better things to do with my time then to argue with someone who isn't going to listen. It would have been a complete waste of time. He had his agenda, which was clear from the beginning. He can yell fraudulent all he wants. If that was the case, the guys that rallied around this place wouldn't have done so? They must be all on the take too, right?

It appears your time here has come to an end. If that's how you feel, there really is no reason for you to stay here any longer. Go read your health magazines. I'm sure you'll work it all out. But don't stick around if your going to sit here an insult me. It's completely unwarranted.

And Broscience? You mean, science? The science that you've been following and as per yourself, recovering? Lol... And by worthless powder, you mean the herbs that everybody is rotating and getting fantastic results with? You are a bitter man Biz.

Everybody is here because they're getting results, and because they want to be here. You seem to be focused on something other then your own healing.

[Cdsnuts]

You are quickly becoming the laughing stock of the PFS community. This is not something I recommend you just simply brush off. I'm sure you've read the posts of various detractors and skeptics. The latest one from solvepfs.com involving a screen name containing the letters "XP" comes to mind as a remarkable instance of what happens when you don't firmly disclose your interests upfront; just read for yourself this latest one in order to get a glimpse at the lengths in which some of these people will go in order to discredit an approach to healing. Some of things mentioned seem wildly far-fetched but people who are in compromised positions are likely to believe almost anything. This evasiveness has given zealots like PVDL and XP ammunition to further discredit the movement you and others have started here. I know what their fucking agenda is. They've made it all too clear: recovery is not possible until we've all funneled enough money into the foundation and waited a long enough time to see a cure. All of us here know that THAT is a somewhat far-fetched proposition, that even if true, most of us aren't willing to wait that long. Quashing these sorts rumors and accusations upfront would not have been a waste of time. It would have lent you more credibility and perhaps more followers. Now the skepticism and cynicism has become rampant.

Laughing stock of the PFS community....doubt it based on the amount of PM's and emails I get on a daily basis...but nice try.

I have not read posts of the skeptics because why would I? They're wrong, and that's all there is to it.

The results and the protocol speaks for itself. I could care less what they think. If they don't want to do it.....don't. They're the ones who are going to continue to suffer....period.

Thing is, there will always be people who see the truth in it all, and start to follow it and get results. You can't squash the truth no matter how bad you speak of it. It is what it is and will ultimately ALWAYS shine through.

I've already addressed on more then enough occasions about the financial aspect. At this point, it's like beating a dead horse.

You don't like it, you don't agree with it, so be it. Makes no difference to me.

I know that what I'm sharing is true, correct, and in the best interest of anyone that happens to be suffering with PFS. I don't have to slander anyone, talk shit about anyone, and I can lay my head down at night and sleep just fine. That sure seems to piss a few people off. That's how you know you're on to something.

It amazes me that people who have never even tried any of the things recommended could talk shit about how it doesn't work. It's the ultimate in ignorance. Run your mouth about how something is fraudulent or doesn't work when in fact they have no experience with it whatsoever.....THAT is fraudulent, and a disgrace to anyone who is trying to decide what to do next.

We're done here. This is such a pointless waste of time.

If the skepticism and cynicism has become rampant, as you say, then it looks like there will be alot more guys walking around in a permanent state of dysfunction. Congratulations to the ones who started this whole mess. It's on their hands, not mine.

[jimmyjonas]

Bizzbee I am in agreement with a lot of what you say, financials aside, one issue I don’t understand is this, you were on an upward trend with going along with the protocol, I read your posts on your juice feast etc but then as soon as PVDL writes the hatchet job your whole attitude changes? but whats really changed? just because pvdl writes something does that stop the positive physical improvements you were experiencing? No but negativity took over and then it’s back to arguing etc and goodbye improvements. This to me is what an enormous part of PFS is, I’ve seen nothing to suggest otherwise in any of my time with PFS. This is not an attack rather an observation. I do hope you reach valhalla man and believe you will, your best bet is to cut loose from all online forums for an extended period.

It’s a shame that here has come to this lately as it was always a positive upbeat place and it just plays into what PVDL and some others want, to divide, conquer and reunite under Propecia Help, the guy has done serious damage, not to me, but to new guys who wil join in the future and won’t believe in the possibility of recovery, he should be ashamed of his conduct but he is emotionally retarded and has the fucked up logic that finding a study that says you are permanently sick is something to celebrate....reallly.

I prefer to look at the facts which are that not one single study has proven what they so desperately want that PFS is permanent, quite the opposite, now word to the wise, the rumor is that Baylor has found ‘’something’’ that will dispel all homebrews as scams etc but when talking of honesty consider this, this study has been orchestrated and funded by the Foundation a site built and funded on the wish that they find a study that confirms PFS is permanent, something that validates their existence for all the years of funding, speaking of money don’t forget awor etc have been asking people for money for many years so it wouldn’t look good if after all those years that money went down the tubes and was for nothing, this isn’t honest, they have huge vested interest to prove PFS is permanent, think about that. Are they really ever going to be honest enough to turn around and say ya know what fellas we were wrong, it’s not permanent and you can get better? Like fuck they will! The stakes are high for them hence the intensity and relentlessness of their attacks lately.

They need a win after harvard being a huge loss, a study they want to deny, a comprehensive study which found no evidence of permanent damage, where’s the honesty there? Every study should be given consideration you can’t just cherry pick. What really makes me uncomfortable with baylor is the obvious huge conflict of interest from funding and from guiding the study, the definition of which is
“conflict of interest in research” refers to situations in which financial or other personal considerations may compromise, or have the appearance of compromising a researcher's professional judgment in conducting or reporting research.

Hmmmmmmmmm We shall wait and see.

Finally to cd I do think a response to some of these accusations on their turf would be very prudent, they’re ramping up in their intensity on solve pfs etc, it’s not for pvdl or guys like him, they are lost and will be sitting at the computer in ten years spewing the same shit nobody can help them but for new guys who land as here only creeps up long after PH which is top of the google search hopefully someday that will change. Mind you, I totally understand if you don’t, ph is a toxic hole, like going back to mordor to face sauron ha but mordor can be taken down!

[Cdsnuts]

Bizzbee I am in agreement with a lot of what you say, financials aside, one issue I don’t understand is this, you were on an upward trend with going along with the protocol, I read your posts on your juice feast etc but then as soon as PVDL writes the hatchet job your whole attitude changes? but whats really changed? just because pvdl writes something does that stop the positive physical improvements you were experiencing? No but negativity took over and then it’s back to arguing etc and goodbye improvements. This to me is what an enormous part of PFS is, I’ve seen nothing to suggest otherwise in any of my time with PFS. This is not an attack rather an observation. I do hope you reach valhalla man and believe you will, your best bet is to cut loose from all online forums for an extended period.

It’s a shame that here has come to this lately as it was always a positive upbeat place and it just plays into what PVDL and some others want, to divide, conquer and reunite under Propecia Help, the guy has done serious damage, not to me, but to new guys who wil join in the future and won’t believe in the possibility of recovery, he should be ashamed of his conduct but he is emotionally retarded and has the fucked up logic that finding a study that says you are permanently sick is something to celebrate....reallly.

I prefer to look at the facts which are that not one single study has proven what they so desperately want that PFS is permanent, quite the opposite, now word to the wise, the rumor is that Baylor has found ‘’something’’ that will dispel all homebrews as scams etc but when talking of honesty consider this, this study has been orchestrated and funded by the Foundation a site built and funded on the wish that they find a study that confirms PFS is permanent, something that validates their existence for all the years of funding, speaking of money don’t forget awor etc have been asking people for money for many years so it wouldn’t look good if after all those years that money went down the tubes and was for nothing, this isn’t honest, they have huge vested interest to prove PFS is permanent, think about that. Are they really ever going to be honest enough to turn around and say ya know what fellas we were wrong, it’s not permanent and you can get better? Like fuck they will! The stakes are high for them hence the intensity and relentlessness of their attacks lately.

They need a win after harvard being a huge loss, a study they want to deny, a comprehensive study which found no evidence of permanent damage, where’s the honesty there? Every study should be given consideration you can’t just cherry pick. What really makes me uncomfortable with baylor is the obvious huge conflict of interest from funding and from guiding the study, the definition of which is
“conflict of interest in research” refers to situations in which financial or other personal considerations may compromise, or have the appearance of compromising a researcher's professional judgment in conducting or reporting research.

Hmmmmmmmmm We shall wait and see.

Finally to cd I do think a response to some of these accusations on their turf would be very prudent, they’re ramping up in their intensity on solve pfs etc, it’s not for pvdl or guys like him, they are lost and will be sitting at the computer in ten years spewing the same shit nobody can help them but for new guys who land as here only creeps up long after PH which is top of the google search hopefully someday that will change. Mind you, I totally understand if you don’t, ph is a toxic hole, like going back to mordor to face sauron ha but mordor can be taken down!

Whatever you look for in life, you'll find. Whether you believe you can, or can't, either way, you're correct.

Let them attack. They're fighting a losing battle. They're on the wrong side of history. Truth always triumphs.

I'm going to continue living my truth.

Guys will still find their way here. The ones that deserve to be here, that is.

[bizzbee]

I'm going to take some time off from the forums. I need to focus on healing. I've been battling scoundrels like pvdl for a long time now. However, I believe in not remaining silent in the face of accusations and rumors. The war they have started is based in part on perception and perceptions matter. Scientific studies are not supposed to be conducted in such a manner that will be perceived as favorable to one point of view. This is bias. It is detrimental to the scientific process. If Baylor was conducted with this sort of agenda in mind then there is much to be concerned about.

[Maxout777]

Who cares about being the laughing stock of the PFS community? What's a laughing stock is the general behavior. My man, you've received nothing but help from almost everyone on this site, myself included. So why would you choose to attack the people on here?

Given your age I would expect that you would be able to handle yourself like a man on an internet forum, but I guess the ability to revert to a five year old manner of name calling never quite escapes people.

Either way dude, I wish you the best. As long as your getting better and healthy, then that's all that should matter. The rest is just a waste of your time as well as the rest of ours.

[bizzbee]

Alright. Agreed. I will make getting better my singular focus. To hell with the rest of it.



Who cares about being the laughing stock of the PFS community? What's a laughing stock is the general behavior. My man, you've received nothing but help from almost everyone on this site, myself included. So why would you choose to attack the people on here?

Given your age I would expect that you would be able to handle yourself like a man on an internet forum, but I guess the ability to revert to a five year old manner of name calling never quite escapes people.

Either way dude, I wish you the best. As long as your getting better and healthy, then that's all that should matter. The rest is just a waste of your time as well as the rest of ours.

[Swill]

On the topic of Baylor, I think some of these rumours are well wise of the mark. I took part in the Baylor study, and for detail of my observations and discussions with Dr Khera, a lot of what people including Jimmy are saying seems wide of the mark. In truth, I don’t think the study was/is very high up the agenda for Baylor, as they said it was a few months away from publication when I took place, in March 2015.

I don’t get why so many people want to give any time to idiots on other irrelevant platforms just to waste time arguing the toss and justifying the protocol. It won’t achieve anything, those that choose to frequent there aren’t going to buy into any of what we do, and that’s fine and their call. Anyone who takes the time to look into things will find their way here and you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to see this is different and not dangerous like “homebrew” where you are pumping yourself full of harsh pharmaceuticals. In truth I don’t even understand why many of you bother having log ins to these other places, what the fuck are you expecting to find there aside from all this crap?!? Ah well, each to their own.

People who want to find their way here will. And people who want to get better will have the commitment and dedication to do so.

And I’m bored as fuck with everyone going on about the financials of the protocol too... do some research and you’ll see that everything CD recommends is what he did 3 years ago before there was any affiliation... what the fuck does it matter if he now has the sense to make a bit of money through referral for all the stuff he invested the time in recommending all along?!? Also, most of the important parts of the protocol (diet, sleep and rest, exercise) there is nothing financial to be gained. If I were trying to scam money I’d certainly come up with something better than that.

Let’s apply some fucking common sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jimmyjonas]

On the topic of Baylor, I think some of these rumours are well wise of the mark. I took part in the Baylor study, and for detail of my observations and discussions with Dr Khera, a lot of what people including Jimmy are saying seems wide of the mark. In truth, I don’t think the study was/is very high up the agenda for Baylor, as they said it was a few months away from publication when I took place, in March 2015.

I don’t get why so many people want to give any time to idiots on other irrelevant platforms just to waste time arguing the toss and justifying the protocol. It won’t achieve anything, those that choose to frequent there aren’t going to buy into any of what we do, and that’s fine and their call. Anyone who takes the time to look into things will find their way here and you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to see this is different and not dangerous like “homebrew” where you are pumping yourself full of harsh pharmaceuticals. In truth I don’t even understand why many of you bother having log ins to these other places, what the fuck are you expecting to find there aside from all this crap?!? Ah well, each to their own.

People who want to find their way here will. And people who want to get better will have the commitment and dedication to do so.

And I’m bored as fuck with everyone going on about the financials of the protocol too... do some research and you’ll see that everything CD recommends is what he did 3 years ago before there was any affiliation... what the fuck does it matter if he now has the sense to make a bit of money through referral for all the stuff he invested the time in recommending all along?!? Also, most of the important parts of the protocol (diet, sleep and rest, exercise) there is nothing financial to be gained. If I were trying to scam money I’d certainly come up with something better than that.

Let’s apply some fucking common sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I guess my point with Baylor Swill is that lately there is chatter from mods at ph etc that it’s findings are going to blow all other recovery methods including here out of the water and prove that it can’t be recovered from. They say its release date is imminent, they state it has been delayed due to significant findings. I personally don’t believe any of this, I believe it to be spin, and far more likely the delay is down to what you say about it being down the list of priorities, nevertheless this is the line they are spinning and people will take it as gospel which to me is dangerous. Again these guys need a big win as they’ve been at it with the studies for years with no success.

The chatter around Baylor finding something before it’s even released in itself should make one uncomfortable as it suggests the foundation is being leaked information from someone involved with the study, that doesn’t sit well, surely there has to be separation between the interest group and the impartial researchers? It’s also been said the head Mod Awor ‘literally designed Baylor’, that again doesn’t sit well.

I’m not having a go at guys who took part in the study rather the architects of the study, I know you took part in it and you know more than me about it, I think it’s commendable that you did, if I had the opportunity I would have myself as everyone just wants a solution, lucky for us we found the solution right here but many will get sick, land at ph etc and believe everything they read from awor mew etc, it’s hard for me to put myself back in my shoes then but i was totally fucked up and wasn’t myself, in a serious vulnerable state open to impression from others, not listening to logic, no clue what was happening and then you come across the doom merchants awor etc and in that state you believe them then you contemplate ending it, Im sure many have in that state of mind. I don’t like what’s going on lately as even though we are sure of being able to get better many will listen to them and turn away from hope and recovery, but I guess you can’t save the world.

Anyway enough from me on this, peace out guys.

[Pageidol]

All these studies and potential outcomes or whatever is just another spin/twist to the outcome. The outcome and credits will always come down to healthy living (diet, exercise, rest) herbs that help everything along...giving the body the best environment to do its bidding. Sat on ones arse or hoping some magic pill will be developed (which it wont) or some grand revelation from a study which gives people I don’t know...some negative comfort doesn’t help a damn thing. Just the action on doing and not staying still is one of most important things in life. I suppose in that sense i can understand why the guys at Ph are putting so much effort into the foundation/studies. Thats them ‘doing’ but Im certainly happier doing this with you guys. 💪🤘... my current biceps certainly agree ha

[Cdsnuts]

I guess my point with Baylor Swill is that lately there is chatter from mods at ph etc that it’s findings are going to blow all other recovery methods including here out of the water and prove that it can’t be recovered from. They say its release date is imminent, they state it has been delayed due to significant findings. I personally don’t believe any of this, I believe it to be spin, and far more likely the delay is down to what you say about it being down the list of priorities, nevertheless this is the line they are spinning and people will take it as gospel which to me is dangerous. Again these guys need a big win as they’ve been at it with the studies for years with no success.

The chatter around Baylor finding something before it’s even released in itself should make one uncomfortable as it suggests the foundation is being leaked information from someone involved with the study, that doesn’t sit well, surely there has to be separation between the interest group and the impartial researchers? It’s also been said the head Mod Awor ‘literally designed Baylor’, that again doesn’t sit well.

I’m not having a go at guys who took part in the study rather the architects of the study, I know you took part in it and you know more than me about it, I think it’s commendable that you did, if I had the opportunity I would have myself as everyone just wants a solution, lucky for us we found the solution right here but many will get sick, land at ph etc and believe everything they read from awor mew etc, it’s hard for me to put myself back in my shoes then but i was totally fucked up and wasn’t myself, in a serious vulnerable state open to impression from others, not listening to logic, no clue what was happening and then you come across the doom merchants awor etc and in that state you believe them then you contemplate ending it, Im sure many have in that state of mind. I don’t like what’s going on lately as even though we are sure of being able to get better many will listen to them and turn away from hope and recovery, but I guess you can’t save the world.

Anyway enough from me on this, peace out guys.

How can they prove that it can't be recovered from, when myself and many others have recovered? Not sure I get that? It's complete bullshit.

[jimmyjonas]

How can they prove that it can't be recovered from, when myself and many others have recovered? Not sure I get that? It's complete bullshit.


How can they prove that it can't be recovered from, when myself and many others have recovered? Not sure I get that? It's complete bullshit.

Well the story goes we are all liars, basically anybody thats says they have drastically improved or recovered is a liar, and that if you do get better then either you didn’t have pfs or not a severe form of PFS, very convenient narrative isn’t it. Ya know just maybe it’s to do with them investing themselves into negativity, the power of negative thinking is just as powerful as positive thinking, but in truth they simply cannot and will not be able to prove you cannot get better.

The timing of all of this lately isn’t a coincidence, their gameplan is to find something through baylor which says anybody that has said they’ve recovered is delusional, then reunite under a new ph with lots of new donors for the foundation and more money for research and in the meantime silence anybody who says you don’t need to go their way, hence the character assasination on your goodself cd, it’s part of a masterplan, you’re a big threat to them as you’ve proven you can get better and refuse to endorse the foundation which means less money for their cause. Anyway dude the level they’ve gone to smear you shows what a impact you’ve had, a positive against their negative. Keep it up.

[Hulk Smash]

Well the story goes we are all liars, basically anybody thats says they have drastically improved or recovered is a liar, and that if you do get better then either you didn’t have pfs or not a severe form of PFS, very convenient narrative isn’t it. Ya know just maybe it’s to do with them investing themselves into negativity, the power of negative thinking is just as powerful as positive thinking, but in truth they simply cannot and will not be able to prove you cannot get better.

The timing of all of this lately isn’t a coincidence, their gameplan is to find something through baylor which says anybody that has said they’ve recovered is delusional, then reunite under a new ph with lots of new donors for the foundation and more money for research and in the meantime silence anybody who says you don’t need to go their way, hence the character assasination on your goodself cd, it’s part of a masterplan, you’re a big threat to them as you’ve proven you can get better and refuse to endorse the foundation which means less money for their cause. Anyway dude the level they’ve gone to smear you shows what a impact you’ve had, a positive against their negative. Keep it up.


Now I see where Bizbee is coming from...

Whether or not Baylor is truly benevolent and genuine remains for everyone to decide on their own.
I personally doubt the claims Baylor or PH makes for a few reasons:

1. First and foremost Baylor has failed to have all current chemical hair loss drugs classified as poisons to all men (each in varying severity, but still poisoned). I know some say that its a relatively small percentage of men that fall into pfs. Some say its genetics that play a factor. I'm about 90% sure in the bit of studying I've done and mere observation that those claims are false. Also, proving that fin and other drugs are 100% poison should have been Baylor's approach from day one. It hasn't been. You know whats sad? Its not even difficult to have proven this. Would only take about 3-5 years tops. And they would have had all the funding needed just from proving that. It doesn't take a genius to tackle the issue from this angle and because of this, Baylor is suspicious imo.

Why do I hold this stance on fin and Baylor? To give a simple logical reason: take steroids for example, everyone knows not to mess with it because of the inhibition it does to natural testosterone production and all the other effects with it. Everyone knows those effects happen to every man and woman that uses it. Its purely and simply bio-chemistry. There are no genetics involved to explain or "cause" its initial effects on men. No one is super-man and can take steroids without issue, just the same with fin, sp and other things.

I think I know what Baylor has found that "proves its incurable".
I could go into that but I won't as this would be a longer reply and I don't know if you all want to hear my take on that.

Baylor hasn't tried and tested this regimen, and until they do, they would be falsely claiming there being no remedy.

Bizbee, how many things were thought incurable until one day someone found the cure?

[Cdsnuts]

Now I see where Bizbee is coming from...

Whether or not Baylor is truly benevolent and genuine remains for everyone to decide on their own.
I personally doubt the claims they or PH makes for a few reasons:

1. First and foremost Baylor has failed to have all current chemical hair loss drugs classified as poisons to all men (each in varying severity, but still poisoned). I know some say that its a relatively small percentage of men that fall into pfs. Some say its genetics that play a factor. I'm about 90% sure in the bit of studying I've done and mere observation that those claims are false. Also, proving that fin and other drugs are 100% poison should have been Baylor's approach from day one. It hasn't been. You know whats sad? Its not even difficult to have proven this. Would only take about 3-5 years tops. And they would have had all the funding needed just from proving that.

Why do I hold this stance on fin and Baylor? To give a simple logical reason: take steroids for example, everyone knows not to mess with it because of the inhibition it does to natural testosterone production and all the other effects with it. Everyone knows those effects happen to every man and woman that uses it. Its purely and simply bio-chemistry. There are no genetics involved to explain or "cause" its initial effects on men. No one is super-man and can take steroids without issue, just the same with fin, sp and other things.

I think I know what Baylor has found that "proves its incurable".
I could go into that but I won't as this would be a longer reply and I don't know if you all want to hear my take on that.

Baylor hasn't tried and tested this regimen, and until they do, they would be falsely claiming there being no remedy.

Bizbee, how many things were thought incurable until one day someone found the cure?

And they never will test the regimen, because there is no money in most of what is recommended, despite a few people whining about financials. Anyone can take this regimen and put it together on their own spending a minimal amount of money. They don't even have to purchase the herbs from my site. I only recommend LEH because their quality is the best I've found in the past 8 years. Nothing more, nothing less.

[biatch]

And they never will test the regimen, because there is no money in most of what is recommended, despite a few people whining about financials. Anyone can take this regimen and put it together on their own spending a minimal amount of money. They don't even have to purchase the herbs from my site. I only recommend LEH because their quality is the best I've found in the past 8 years. Nothing more, nothing less.

I agree.
I bought some herbs from LostEmpire and many others from a shop just under my flat.
I guess all these accusations against CD who want to get money is a no sense discussion.. I mean, happy for him if he wants to get money from this, this shows even more that he has recovered 100% since he has this drive in life and he is not a PFS zombie.
Plus, all the info he gave are not supposed to be paid.. but, now that I am 100% sure he will get money by buying from his site, well...I will only buy from his site cause I would make him rich if he could bring me out from this hell. And I would make him rich even just being a constant presence in the situation I am in in my life.. alone in the dark hell without knowing how to get out.
Come on guys, try to just be honest with yourself, we have to be thankfull to have half work done by someone who did before.

[Cdsnuts]

I agree.
I bought some herbs from LostEmpire and many others from a shop just under my flat.
I guess all these accusations against CD who want to get money is a no sense discussion.. I mean, happy for him if he wants to get money from this, this shows even more that he has recovered 100% since he has this drive in life and he is not a PFS zombie.
Plus, all the info he gave are not supposed to be paid.. but, now that I am 100% sure he will get money by buying from his site, well...I will only buy from his site cause I would make him rich if he could bring me out from this hell. And I would make him rich even just being a constant presence in the situation I am in in my life.. alone in the dark hell without knowing how to get out.
Come on guys, try to just be honest with yourself, we have to be thankfull to have half work done by someone who did before.

Thanks Biatch.

Let them carry on and make themselves look like fools. You can see the desperation in their posts....how hard they're trying to discredit me. They just don't understand, the harder they try, the more it's going to back fire on them.

Keep plugging along.