he shou wu/fo ti concerns

[basementdweller]

Lots of research claiming that it is estrogenic. Plus it's used for hair loss. Is it really wise to use this?

[Pageidol]

Check this out mate
Favourite Herbs?!.. (http://www.swolesource.com/forum/post-finasteride-syndrome/3420-favourite-herbs.html)

[entropy]

Maybe it is estrogenic actually but not all estrogens are created equally. I take he shou wu once a week in my small cycle and have done for four months and too high doses have given me low estro symptoms. Maybe a serm like effect.

My hair is actually fucking glorious btw. I have had minimal if any loss since I stopped taking the fin. I'm less... Strict than a lot of you guys though and there's definitely saw palmetto and ketocanozole in my shampoos. *gets ready to run*

[basementdweller]

Maybe it is estrogenic actually but not all estrogens are created equally. I take he shou wu once a week in my small cycle and have done for four months and too high doses have given me low estro symptoms. Maybe a serm like effect.

My hair is actually fucking glorious btw. I have had minimal if any loss since I stopped taking the fin. I'm less... Strict than a lot of you guys though and there's definitely saw palmetto and ketocanozole in my shampoos. *gets ready to run*

low estro symptoms, like what? and at what dose?

I use an extract that's a bit stronger than LEH but I feel nice on it

[Maxout777]

Maybe it is estrogenic actually but not all estrogens are created equally. I take he shou wu once a week in my small cycle and have done for four months and too high doses have given me low estro symptoms. Maybe a serm like effect.

My hair is actually fucking glorious btw. I have had minimal if any loss since I stopped taking the fin. I'm less... Strict than a lot of you guys though and there's definitely saw palmetto and ketocanozole in my shampoos. *gets ready to run*

Just the thought of shampooing with that scares the ever living shit out of me, lol.

[entropy]

Just the thought of shampooing with that scares the ever living shit out of me, lol.

Originally it was a trial, to see if I could notice any symptoms but it smells nice and I rotate it with nizoral now. Fpr is sensitive to 5aris and he used parador shampoo a lot which also has saw palmetto in it. Understand how you feel though bro.

[entropy]

low estro symptoms, like what? and at what dose?

I use an extract that's a bit stronger than LEH but I feel nice on it
At the time about 2-3g a day? I use a different herb every day of the week so maybe tolerance? I use about 700mg divided into two daily doses now, one about six am and the next about 4pm

Anxiety mostly. Night sweats, fatigue, dry ass lips etc. Nothing a couple beers couldn't sort out but it was pretty surprising.

[Cdsnuts]

Lots of research claiming that it is estrogenic. Plus it's used for hair loss. Is it really wise to use this?

If it's on the list, there is a reason for it being there. NONE of the herbs listed were listed haphazardly, to say the least. Everyone of them were researched and tested for years by myself and others.

It is not estrogenic, per se....it modulates estrogen. Big difference there.

Any claims in regards to hair is that it is supposed to bring the color back into it from grey/white to your natural hair color. How much of this is true, well, I'm not sure. That isn't the reason it's there at all though.

He Shou Wu is a general health tonic that is fantastic for longevity and general health and vitality. It balances estrogen levels to where they should be. Nothing more, nothing less. Especially when used as directed on the site for the purposes of male optimization. Other then that, I can't speak for any other brands except the ones that I have direct experience with, which are the ones that I recommend. This is why, they are recommended. I make this clear from the beginning.

You have nothing to worry about concerning any of the herbs listed in this regimen.

[Durantia37]

Just the thought of shampooing with that scares the ever living shit out of me, lol.

I'm sure there's a huge difference between taking SP extract and shampooing with it, but I'm with you on that. No way.

[Cdsnuts]

I'm sure there's a huge difference between taking SP extract and shampooing with it, but I'm with you on that. No way.

Let's just say that I'm glad to be fucking bald.....

[Durantia37]

Let's just say that I'm glad to be fucking bald.....

I'm sure it's a much better place to be, psychologically. But I have too much hair to just start going cue-tip.

[Pageidol]

I had testicle pain, shrunken genitals and impotence for 5 days after using nizoral. This was before i crashed. I used it 3 times. Stuff was awful.

More ancedotal reports here

Nizoral Killed my Sex Drive, Would Procepia and Dutasteride as well? - Page 3 - BaldTruthTalk.com (https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/threads/7628-Nizoral-Killed-my-Sex-Drive-Would-Procepia-and-Dutasteride-as-well/page3)

[entropy]

Nizoral isn't even a 5ari. It's got a weak affinity to the androgen receptor. The same stuff is in jock itch cream..

[Pageidol]

Yeah buts its active ingredient is ketoconazole...a potent anti-androgen is it not?

[jacknap]

i used nizoral for like a year before I crashed. I did notice like maybe a 10% hit to my libido after I showered and used it and that's a big maybe.

kratom though for sure I had huge libido hits and then I would have crazy rebounds.

[entropy]

Kratom is for all intent and purposes and opiate/opiate like substance. You'll find that heroin addicts in the midst of hardcore withdrawal will be sweating, sick and jerking it furiously five times a day cause their brain is crying out for a dopamine hit.

[entropy]

Pageidol, it's not as simple as "anti-androgen" or "anti-estrogen". Keto binds the androgen receptor and then has little to no androgenic effects, its like breaking the key off in a lock so you can't turn it, eventually it unbinds just like dht would and the receptor is free again. All of this happens locally.

Finasteride permanently binds to an enzyme rather than a receptor and damages a whole chain of processes systematically.

[Pageidol]

Yeah i see mate, 2 different modes of actions. I mean when i used it it was roughly 5 weeks after saw palmetto use so perhaps it was a mini sp crash and the timing was just coincidental.

So you still cycle 7 herbs mate, did you initially do 21 days through your recovery or just 7?

Just curious really mate. Your a brit like me haha, Blackpool mate

[entropy]

Sussex now mate but I did a few other places before then.

Man I'm gonna be honest I take a lot of supplements and a bit of a chemical kid as it is so ima give you a list

I don't use anything at the weekend unless I'm with ze female and then I might take 2-3 herbs together and a small dose of cialis for shits and giggles as were long distance and well you've seen my sig mate.

Greens powder with spirulina and chlorella in the morning.
Mixed toco vit E
8000iu vit D
Like 4 grams of vitamin c a day but its cols season and I work in a hospital.
Garlic
3mg boron
Alternate B12 lozenge + folate and a full spectrum B12 supplements.
4-5 grams of fish oil (I wanna switch to krill but its expensive) + my herb schedule

He shou Wu
Ashwaghanda
Liftmode tribulus
Dopa Macuna
Tong kat Ali

At night I take zinc and magnesium and sometimes a little melatonin.

This particular routine has changed many times in the past four or so years though bud and I'm always interested in trying new things.

I've been known to experiment with other things too. I enjoy my prohormones and eventually I'll probably juice for realsies and have no qualms using peptides. Ipamorelin + mod grf are great and will be used again.

I'm gonna be giving low dose naltraxone a try in the near future too lol

And before the naysayers come along I dropped everything for weeks a few times a year short of Vit D and E and my dick hasn't fallen off once. I'm recovered.

[jacknap]

yeah even before I crashed I was always big on supplements and experimenting with diets etc. cuz I was into optimization. that's why I crashed from an obscure hair loss chemical in the first place lol

[Cdsnuts]

Same here.....was always taking something, one way or the other.

It was this action that lead me down the path of addiction on more then one occassion...kratom, poppy pod tea, etc.

But thankfully, it was also this ability to take a shit ton of things that lead me to not be scared taking over 20 something herbs along with other things on a monthly basis.

[jacknap]

I understood the addiction mechanism before I ever started using supplements etc so only thing I ever got addicted too was coffee lol.

[Cdsnuts]

I understood the addiction mechanism before I ever started using supplements etc so only thing I ever got addicted too was coffee lol.

Oh I plenty well understood it.....lol. Just never stopped me.

I have learned ALOT, to say the least. I don't suggest everyone treat their bodies like a chemistry set, but it ended up working out for me, and many others because of this insatiably curiosity.

I've learned to stay away from the recreational side of things these days. I'm in too good a place to ruin it.

[entropy]

Oh I plenty well understood it.....lol. Just never stopped me.

I have learned ALOT, to say the least. I don't suggest everyone treat their bodies like a chemistry set, but it ended up working out for me, and many others because of this insatiably curiosity.

I've learned to stay away from the recreational side of things these days. I'm in too good a place to ruin it.

Jesus I can't wait for that stage. I'm an addict through and through but the older I get the more I realise it can be a boon as well as a curse.

[Cdsnuts]

Jesus I can't wait for that stage. I'm an addict through and through but the older I get the more I realise it can be a boon as well as a curse.

So did everyone else notice that we can no longer "like" posts?

[CSM25]

So did everyone else notice that we can no longer "like" posts?

I dislike this.

[jacknap]

So did everyone else notice that we can no longer "like" posts?

ya noticed this as well. figured because of a server change?

[Cdsnuts]

ya noticed this as well. figured because of a server change?

I'm not too tecky so your guess is as good as mine.