Lmfao. You read it 500 times.
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there we go, seems like the thread is back on track
OK, I'm not going to add any research on marijuana as there are many and mostly they contradict itself, and in reality as usual people who perform research are biased- which does affect outcome, but I will add my own opinion
personally I dont think that marijuana is good for average user- there are many conditions/situation where marijuana is very helpful, now I dont remeber details but simply said- I know that it does "calm" down some people and it can have long term effect which is definitely helpful for some people but not for most
it is also (IMO) most effective aid with epilepsy, its great anesthetic and my firm conclusion is that marijuana has a strong case for anti-cancer research
Now, it does has a dark side, it affect sperm, it does lower testosterone (not sure how much though) and it does raise E2, there is no doubt that there is strong connection between gyno and marijuana, but I think its because androgen:estrogen ratio rather than prolactin, as I firmly beleive that prolactin does not cause gyno.
Now, measuring neurotransmitters is a tricky bit- I dont that we have a really proven way to measure it, researchers doing test on animals do it by measuring some electric pulses if I'm not wrong? Anyway, my point is that I would take these researches on marijuana-dopamine with grain of salt.
Some studies show that marijuana lowers IQ- but thats incorrect its just the fact that people with lower IQ are more likely to use not marijuana, but all other stuff as well
Studies show that it lowers one part of the brain but it seems that brain has a way to deal with this by increasing communication in that area, so effect in practice is not really noticed- tough, to me it does not sound good.
My final opinion is that (unless used for medical reason) marijuana should be use on rare occasions. I dont think that one here-and-then it will cause any issues, but for Gods sake if you use it, be a Man and dont justify it to others.
I've just eaten 4 "pain au chocolate" which is somewhere on top of "dont do list" around 1500 bad calories, adn all I can say- thoroughly enjoyed it... And I'll do it again.
Now guys, we can all agree to disagree? Lets get back to "TRT" topic.
Did a bunch more reading today and the more I do the more it seems to make me shake my head because I should've tackled this problem when it first came up.
Guess toughing it out is catching up to me now.
I think you thinking too much, the French have that expression "Que Sera, Sera"- "Whatever Will Be, Will Be"
All your problems have a root somewhere long back in time, and thinking about it its not going to change... Your diet is good, your exercising, and all other things will start coming into its place, and in year time your feel better than ever.
These days we know so much about TRT, that it is nothing to worry about. Go and see your doc relaxed.
You may find this thread helpful: Blood work, can someone take a look at it please
This thread was a really really interesting read! Thanks for this all of you!!! But Especially to Scope for starting it!!!! And it all happened in 2 days?!?! wow!!
I haven't smoked since 6 years ago. But my display pic was taken when I used to smoke grams a day. Sometimes I even feel that back then, I used to look better than I do today. Just saying :rolleyes:
But, true thing: What will be will be. I'll be here following see where this ends up going to
Scope, my notes are all hand written (I know oldschool AF), and I took them having already decided TRT was the way to go. If you decide to go that way, I'd be more than happy to type it up.
Only do as much research as you can without getting anxious. There really is always something new you could be reading, so just take your sweet ass time. I'm pretty sure the forum wont let you fuck anything up :D
At your appointment you pretty much only need to get bloods (make sure he/she is comfortable treating hormone issues), I'd go with everything Jel and Crisler recommend. Once you get those, things should be pretty damn clear moving forward. Make sure they send you a copy as soon as its available as well.
I have a list of things I'll take in to ask to have checked into and just go from there.
Just writing all this stuff out has even relieved some of the mental stress I've been having but in the past I know I'm just 1 small thing away from a blowout or just feeling down. I'm really looking forward to next weeks appointment and just hope my doctor is understanding and willing to listen because if not I'll probably go ballistic in that place. Lol
VayneZ yeah all in just a few days. It just shows you how good of a Crew there is on SwoleSource.com
This is the only site I post this kinda stuff up on because I know the guys here will take it serious and are always willing to help out.
Again thank you all for taking the time to post what you know to help me out. It really means a lot and I truely appreciate your time.
Can't wait to see and post up my bloods.
I hope you try to recover your testosterone than taking the bandaid option of HRT.....like i said your mechanics are all working you need a tune up and get off the pot. When you have taken HCG in the past and felt its benefits this shows that it's all there and willing to work when required, now you just need to do your part.
A few small doses of HCG will get the ball rolling and then follow it with some Res100 and anything else your blood work shows that needs attention you wont require HRT.
Would having sex be good or bad for test results?
Either way it won't stop me from having it just wanted to ask/know.
I'm pretty sure being aroused/having sex often increases natural testosterone in the long run, but I'm not sure the acute effects of sex on testosterone.
That's what I've read too just didn't know if having a few active days before a test would skew the results.
Tomorrow is the big day.
I'll post bloods as soon as I get them.
Just got to work but I'll post my list of what I'd like looked into here shortly.
Here's my list.
Let me know if I'm missing any key things and I'll add them to it.
Test total/free/bio
LH
FSH
SHBG
Estrogen sensitive for males
Cortisol
Prolactin
LFT
DHT
CBC
CMP
GH/IGF
A1C
TSH
T3
T4
Vit D
B6
B12
Ferritin
Going in for bloods tomorrow morning.
He said he'd test TEST and estrogen and a few other things but not what I had listed just to take a look at things first. I told him I wasn't looking to get on TRT thats why I wanted so much looked and since I sometimes snore and don't sleep good he might look into that because I also have night sweats and a few other things that's on every other checklist.
I'll go see him next Wednesday to go over it and go from there. If at that time things look bleak all ask for him to test everything on my list.
So until next Wednesday I'll have no new info.
You also need cholesterol total, LDL, HDL, triglycerides
So you are doing these exactly:
Test, Total and bio-available
Estrogen (sensitive)
regular bloodwork?
These will tell us what we already know, that there is a problem somewhere hurting these values, and then you'll have to come back and ask for what you already asked. I can't come up with a reason not to do the rest, other than we wants more visits out of you. I don't know man, I'd be weary of sticking with this guy. Did he seem like he has a clue or no? or past TRT experience? If he decides you need TRT is he just going to cookie cutter protocol you? does he respect the knowledge you have on the subject?
Also, I encourage bringing in your research materials and notes etc to prove you know what youre talking about. Most Dr.s assume their patients knowledge is hearsay unless you prove otherwise.
Curious to see where you're at man
He's just gonna run what he wants and if nothing comes of it I'll make sure he request everything I have listed to be checked into.
These visits cost me nothing out of pocket other than the drive and I won't make that drive more than 3 times with nothing coming from it before switching doctors.
He seemed cool and interested in figuring things out but maybe my list was a little big for him to want to run them all or any of them since it's not the norm.
I'm not to worried about it and it'll all workout in the end.
I forgot to mention he said I might have Low T but feels there's other reasons for that and that's why I didn't push to hard to have my list ran because he seemed like he'd be running labs on stuff to look into why I'm feeling the way I am.
The doctor wasn't some old guy probably 30-35 or he just looks younger so I'm hoping he's up on his game and will be able to help me you and get things sorted out. If not I'll just request to see another doctor or go elsewhere but I have a good feeling this guy will be willing to do what I ask if it comes down to it.
He was also impressed and glad I'm trying to figure this out instead of looking for a quick fix and I told him it would be great to be fixed up without having to be on a life long treatment like TRT/HRT or have to take anything for my depression and mood swings.
I know I won't get on any harsh Meds because I'd rather live the way I am than be a pill popper zombie.
Go back in today at 1:45 to go over the blood work and see what he actually had tested.
I'll be taking my list and info from this thread and others back in with me too because if I'm not happy I'll request that more bloods be ran or to speak to another doctor.
I was just planning on going to a hrt club . Pricy but I'm old an would fit right in to get a script.
^seems worth it to go through a GP. Only $10 a vial with insurance...
Excited to see those bloods scope! How you feeling without the weed? Any different?
I'm excited too. Hoping for the best but whatever happens happens.
I Feel fine with out the MJ and maybe a little more clear thinking. I'll admit I did smoke last night but only because buddy stopped by and had some other than that I won't be smoking or buying any to smoke. I feel if I smoke 1-2 times a week wont really effect me negativity and Inhave no plans to start up smoking every day.
Bucks I'd also hit up your GP because it's way cheaper that way. You'll be able to get your test and pins right from the pharmacy and for damn cheap too.
My ins only wants to do Andro gel for options. My boss got it and that's all they would pay for.
If you have to pay cost because of insurance, test cyp is like 64 bucks for 10mil. I don't know what a club costs, but I bet you'll be saving money even paying for it all.
Well the results are in and I'm not all that happy with what was tested but enough was tested to show I have a few issues. Lol
http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/...pss1tydlqg.jpg
http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6jn6lwg2.jpg
http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/...pscacgmray.jpg
Looking at those should tell you why I'm not that happy bcause things I assumed would be tested didn't get tested and I didn't notice that until right now. I'll be calling the office to see about getting a lipid panel added to tomorrow's bloods.
For insurance proposes I'll be Going back to get more bloods done tomorrow moring and then go back to see him on the 29th.
He's running more test now to find the source of the problem. He asked if I was against TRT and I said no but if want injections and that won't happen off the bat with him because he pushes the gels and said I'd have to start with those if I wanted to work with him on it.
For some guys testosterone gels work quite fine, if not you can use combo of gel and test e; (usual problem with test. gel is that it cant raise test. levels enough of its very erratic)
Combination of testosterone gel and injections is not a bad thing,
gel brings bit more DHT out,
Scope, you need to check adrenals thouroughly, ACTH test would be good to see as well as 4X saliva cortisol
Test, is low thats needless to say
your B vits may be low as well, maybe ferritin, low vitamin d is not surprise
SHBG is very high which is bit surprise, even tough your E2 is probably high
you'll definitely need exem/aromasin as AI
you exercised heavily prior test?
Personally, I believe having high estrogen is PC for not using gels just because gels typically aggravate estrogen issues. Crisler drops the gel when E is an issue as well.
From a body building standpoint, injections keep your levels pretty even throughout a 24 hour period. Gels start you off high and then during the night you're back down until the next morning dose. So would you rather be 900 ng/dl all week or 12 hours a day? Not sure what the drop off is with the gels exactly, but personal experience tells me its sharp.
Fuck office is closed.
Guess I'll just have to wait and see what's all tested this round.
He seemed talkative on out TRT so maybe that's the route he wants to go and I'm game as long as we monitor everything we can to cover all the bases.
I'll see I can talk him into injections because of my active life style making gels a hassle for me and I'd rather just inject weekly and have it done with.
I hate transdermals for the fact I have to apply them everyday so damn sure won't want to do that forever.
I guess I'll just call in the am.
Well, E2 has to be controlled regardless of gel/injections. Practically Gel convert less to E2 and more to DHT than injections...
Some spikes in testosterone is actually good for the body (from anecdotal evidence) and in theory gel follows natural rhythm more than injections, but problem is that levels fluctuate a lot even at same time of day, and absorbtion is problem, some poeple do have a thick skin :)
and eventually for most gel just does not raise levels enough...
Tough combining gel and injection is what I would reccommend as gel gives a bit of kick (brings DHT up a bit).
You dont need to rush, there is plenty things to do before TRT, I would start supplementing vit D, and in your case I would be liberal, than vitamin b, etc...
and is important to check adrenals as otherwise starting TRT before that will bring a lot of problems like blood pressure, water retention, moonface, you may feel even more tired etc.. it can even lead to "crash"...
adding other minerals is not bad idea...
do you have any issues with kidneys? to me it looks like you're overtrained, like you lifting very har and heavy- otherwise it may be kidney problem