SHBG questions

[Jelisej]

I see what your getting at Entropy, logically - on finasteride, the absence of DHT and free T (given high E and SHBG concentrations) - receptors would have upregulated based on Jels comments. Upon cessation of the drug, the body is flooded with DHT and with heightened receptor sensitivity this would lead to the massive high and return of function which PFS guys speak of, which lasts just a day or 2, then they crash, which you would think would be the receptors burning out in some way.
Jel mentioned that GH can help upregulate receptors. That is good to hear because when i was tested my IGF/1 came back slightly high (just out of range) I guess that could explain why i am doing better than most maybe.

Would exercise, in particular HIIT and heavy weights + decent diet help increase receptor sensitivity? As recovery stories tend to include these things.

I get my bloods back today and will post later.

Exercise does increase receptor sensitvitiy, at least thats what some studies suggest.

Apart of receptors and hormones itself, another thing is signaling- and if signaling is not good than that would cause problems as well. But thats more scientific, and its bit out of my understanding, but I know that some of doctors say that if person is on cycle and shut for too long it leads to problems in signaling, and thats one of reasons why some doctors insist on maintaining hormonal pathways- for example when medicating thyroid they make sure that TSH is not zero.

[English]

Thanks for the reply.
Question concerning Androgen Receptors:
I currently have excellent free T yet i don't yet feel quite my old self, this is mirrored by a lot of ex fin guys who have excellent hormone profiles (after alot of work admittedly) and are still symptomatic of low androgen. Almost everyone postulates this is due to some downregulating of AR's, and logically this seems to be the case, so i am wondering A- how long do receptors take to upregulate/resensitise in the presence of normal androgen levels and a healthy body etc.? and B - Do AR's completely regenerate over time? Do they just grow and appear in the tissue as the tissue regenerates etc? Or do the same receptors sit around in the tissue upregulating or downregulating dependent on conditions?

I am obviously wondering what the general time frame is, in the presence of decent hormones for receptor activity and sensitivity to return to normal - months? Years?

Also, while we are here, are all androgen receptors built for a specific androgen like estrogen and estrogen only, or do some or all take all types etc? For example, i understand that androgen receptors need multiple hormone compounds to unlock the receptor, but then (for example) testosterone climbs in and works its magic. So using that example, can only testosterone climb in, or could another compound climb in and produce a different outcome specific to that hormone?

I appreciate your explanations Jel, as understanding it helps me to think - for example "OK i still don't feel great, but i know the AR's are regenerating over a period of months and years etc and so i am bound to feel better each year"
This helps to chill out and continue to have a good hormone profile etc.

Thanks again

[Jelisej]

I think this link will explain some thing about receptors/signalling/downregulation: Explain To Me: Receptor Upregulation/Downregulation | meandmymastcells
Also this list may be helpful: List of human hormones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Almost everyone postulates this is due to some downregulating of AR's"

You used right word: "postulates", and in reality we dont know what the exact problem is. Maybe is problem with signaling or somewhere else? Or combination of number of problems. I really dont know.

"are all androgen receptors built for a specific androgen like estrogen and estrogen only, or do some or all take all types etc?"
some hormones can act on different receptors, sometimes testosterone can mimic DHT and vice versa, T3 downregulates TRH receptors in the a/p which leads to decreased responsiveness of HPTA with chronically elevated T3 , progesterone can downregulate some estrogen receptors, prolactin upregulates some receptors in breast/nipples etc...



I think if you continue this path, there will be more improvement but how much- only time will tell. You should not worry too much as it does not help.

[English]

Thank you Jel, that improves my understanding alot.

I realised today that i feel bloody great, and last night my skin started getting oily again and has continued through today. Every symptom i had has now gone, all but a lack of sensitivity downstairs - which by the way, if you have an understanding of it, in terms of what creates that lack of sensitivity and how long it takes to return etc. (i am assuming lack of androgens created it and it will return over time) then i would appreciate your wisdom on the subject.

In Britain we have a saying that goes "one swallow does not make a summer" so i am not counting my chickens, however right now i feel great, am functioning fine, am back to my old weight, all of which muscle and i am properly laughing again at stuff.

I worked fucking hard for 16 months, and i got rid of alot of symptoms myself, but at the end of it all, i needed your wisdom which gave me the tools to balance the main male hormones.
Like i say, i may not be completely at the end of the road, but if not i am very close, so close it really doesn't matter, so i want to thank CDSNUTS for providing the inspiration on PH to move my ass into positive mode (i re-read the 25 pages of his measured and intelligent words about 5 times over during the real dark months) I want to thank Entropy for telling me to come to this site, and finally thank you Jelisej, you have helped a stranger with your unpaid time and intelligence when you really didn't need to and had no vested interest in doing so. My company is launching 2 sets of potentially industry changing software in the next 2 years, and if it becomes worth what is predicted, or anything close, i shall be getting back to you in order to repay my debt.

In the mean time i will still ask for guidance, but from now on i am a normal punter, just looking to improve myself, not looking to get out of a massive hole.

Am looking forward now more than ever to seeing my new baby (in 3 months) and bringing it up with my beautiful fiancee. Life is great again.

[English]

I think this link will explain some thing about receptors/signalling/downregulation: Explain To Me: Receptor Upregulation/Downregulation | meandmymastcells
Also this list may be helpful: List of human hormones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Almost everyone postulates this is due to some downregulating of AR's"

You used right word: "postulates", and in reality we dont know what the exact problem is. Maybe is problem with signaling or somewhere else? Or combination of number of problems. I really dont know.

"are all androgen receptors built for a specific androgen like estrogen and estrogen only, or do some or all take all types etc?"
some hormones can act on different receptors, sometimes testosterone can mimic DHT and vice versa, T3 downregulates TRH receptors in the a/p which leads to decreased responsiveness of HPTA with chronically elevated T3 , progesterone can downregulate some estrogen receptors, prolactin upregulates some receptors in breast/nipples etc...



I think if you continue this path, there will be more improvement but how much- only time will tell. You should not worry too much as it does not help.

One more query!!

After watching the clip, i understand the upregulation and downregulation process (fascinating by the way) but how long does this process take, or can take? So if (as in my case) i go from relatively low free androgen for 16 months to highish (over the last month) could it be that my receptors will downregulate in the presence of the suddenly increased androgen, returning me to my previous funk, or will the previous 38 years of normal or high androgen override this because it is maybe still written in my DNA, for cells to be receptive to normal or high levels?
I am assuming that because people often go from fat for years to fit and healthy (and stay fit and healthy) that there is no reason why receptors would downregulate just because androgen levels increase within normal ranges.
Perhaps i should be careful to keep from raising free T too high too quickly, as i am already at the high end - can't quite believe i am saying that.

[Cdsnuts]

Lack of sensitivity is a nerve issue (mainly) in my experience. Stay sober, keep on the holosync, keep on the diet, supps, etc and it will work itself out over TIME.

[English]

Lack of sensitivity is a nerve issue (mainly) in my experience. Stay sober, keep on the holosync, keep on the diet, supps, etc and it will work itself out over TIME.

Thanks for that CD, i've literally not had a single drink since you cautioned me not to maybe 2 months ago - and i will keep to the regime for life now, although i will start drinking occasionally again when sensitivity returns - I really miss getting proper pissed occasionally! Still loving the holosync.

[Cdsnuts]

Thanks for that CD, i've literally not had a single drink since you cautioned me not to maybe 2 months ago - and i will keep to the regime for life now, although i will start drinking occasionally again when sensitivity returns - I really miss getting proper pissed occasionally! Still loving the holosync.

Who doesn't love getting proper pissed....lol. You will be able to again, just not now. And if you like the holosync now, wait till you go deeper. I just started awakening level one and am blown away. I can't imagine how good it's going to be in the levels even deeper.

[English]

Who doesn't love getting proper pissed....lol. You will be able to again, just not now. And if you like the holosync now, wait till you go deeper. I just started awakening level one and am blown away. I can't imagine how good it's going to be in the levels even deeper.

I know it will happen again, and i am so pleased at getting an enjoyable quality of life back that leaving drink behind for a few years is a tiny price to pay.

Yeah i'm looking forward to the AL1 but am waiting the 4 months suggested, so i will begin that 1st May. I also signed up to the sleep suite, which made sleep worse for the first 10 days or more, but now pretty reliably puts me to sleep within 40 minutes or so. I always wake up after it finishes or just before (it lasts 90 minutes) but at that point i have that groggy feeling that allows sleep to come easily again when you take the headphones off.

CD - when you recovered, or were at that point where you were all but recovered but could still remember the recent past when life was utterly painful, did you walk around slightly fearful of going backwards all the time? There's almost nothing wrong with now at all but i think because i am now programmed to constantly worry about something, and scan my body and feelings all the time, now that there is really nothing significant to look at or worry about, my mind has quickly reverted to being concerned about going backwards, and thinking of lots of reasons why i could go backwards.
I know that is daft, and i know why i am doing it but want to stop doing it.
I know Holosync will continue to help in that regard along with all the other stuff we have discussed, which i continue to do, as well as time.
But did you experience the same thing?

[Cdsnuts]

I know it will happen again, and i am so pleased at getting an enjoyable quality of life back that leaving drink behind for a few years is a tiny price to pay.

Yeah i'm looking forward to the AL1 but am waiting the 4 months suggested, so i will begin that 1st May. I also signed up to the sleep suite, which made sleep worse for the first 10 days or more, but now pretty reliably puts me to sleep within 40 minutes or so. I always wake up after it finishes or just before (it lasts 90 minutes) but at that point i have that groggy feeling that allows sleep to come easily again when you take the headphones off.

CD - when you recovered, or were at that point where you were all but recovered but could still remember the recent past when life was utterly painful, did you walk around slightly fearful of going backwards all the time? There's almost nothing wrong with now at all but i think because i am now programmed to constantly worry about something, and scan my body and feelings all the time, now that there is really nothing significant to look at or worry about, my mind has quickly reverted to being concerned about going backwards, and thinking of lots of reasons why i could go backwards.
I know that is daft, and i know why i am doing it but want to stop doing it.
I know Holosync will continue to help in that regard along with all the other stuff we have discussed, which i continue to do, as well as time.
But did you experience the same thing?

No. My recovery came very, very slowly over the course of years in incremental bits and pieces. I didn't have a blue print obviously, so there was a ton of trial and error. But because of the slow progress, everytime I got to a "new normal" I knew it was permanent. It felt permanent. I would stay there for awhile and then break into another level of healing, peeling off another layer of the onion so to speak, moving into another new normal. I made slow and steady progress like this until I made my recovery post. I did have three steps forward one step back experiences, but the general trend was always moving towards healing, so it didn't bother me because I knew it was just the ebb and flow of the healing process. I could see how someone who had a very quick up swing in healing and went from shot out to somewhat normal quickly could have these worries though. Simply because the way you were was so recent, so fresh in your mind. It took me so long to heal that by time I was done, most of those horrible thoughts of the hell I was in were a thing of the past. I was glad for this.

That being said though, I always kept a positive attitude. I don't know why given the circumstances, but I just KNEW I was going to beat it. I knew I was going to get better. There was nothing else on my mind but this. You need to just stay present. In the here and now, and don't think of the what ifs. Enjoy the way you are now. Don't think of how you were. There is no need to bring that past into your present. This is typically a good way to be with everything in life. The only thing any of us have is this moment.....right now. The past is done and the future isn't here yet. And when the future is here, it will be the present. Just keep doing what your doing in this moment now, and you will continue to go where you want.

And as you know, holosync is so good for this. I didn't have it when I was doing the bulk of my healing but most of those guys on that forum would have just dismissed it as new age tree hugging hippie shit. It's these same guys who are still miserable because they don't understand the power of their own minds. I know you do.

And btw, I continue to be amazed at the way I feel. I thought when I made that post, almost a year and a half ago, that I had arrived. I can tell you that I feel ten times better now then I did then. This isn't a regimen anymore, it's just a way of life. One I could not imagine living any other way. Just keep on it my man. You'll get there.